I don’t want to pay less National Insurance, I’d like a better funded NHS

[CormorantStrikesBack]

🤷‍♀️

obviously I appreciate I’m in a position to think that, but I’m not on a huge wage. I’m glad if it helps people who are struggling but I’m also worried about the nhs, school funding, etc.

They don’t seem to be managing now, I can only imagine it will get worse. There are councils going bankrupt and cutting services, respite care, libraries, etc.

id rather carry on paying what I’m paying than risk such services been funded even less.

It's the same system whereby workers earning under the threshold for paying NIC get a "credit" towards state pensions, also similar with unemployed, parents with young children, etc. As long as you earn over one threshold, you get "credits" for benefits such as state pension, whether you pay NIC or not.

I know exactly what you mean. It feels like that's the last thing that should be cut.
There are better ways that the government could help people, through policy and regulations (if they actually wanted to) Stop us being overcharged for necessities like water, energy and fuel for one!

@Choosychoice

Cutting NICs rewards workers without rewarding wealthy pensioners.

Nail on the head. And rightly so. Workers have been disproportionately hit over the past 25 years and it's time they got a break. NIC has been an anomaly for decades and let's hope this is the first step towards it being scrapped entirely.

Lots of people, such as pensioners, buy to letters, investment portfolios, etc., have been largely insulated by "tax" rises over the past 25 years because they don't pay NIC. It would have been madness to give them a tax break at the moment as they pay less "tax" than workers anyway, due to NIC!

My (adult) DC lives in France. They reckon they pay around 50% of their income on tax, health insurance (everyone does, this is the state system) and personal liability insurance (everyone has to have by law.
Child had an accident over the weekend. Went to A&E, seen straight away, triaged, saw doctor, given pain killers and sent to regional specialist centre by uber. Admitted straight away, triaged and in theatre for specialist surgery within 3 hours. On a Sunday. Discharged home. Back to see surgeon 2 days later, wound cleaned and redressed, painkillers and antibiotics. Physio arranged.
This is normal. Home help arranged for if assistance needed with washing, dressing, etc.
I fail to see how tax cuts for the rich are going to improve the NHS, transport, care of the elderly. I would rather pay more and have a decent service, but I am not convinced the people in charge are capable.

If people need to have made 30 qualifying year's-worth of NI contributions in order to qualify for a state pension and he is abolishing voluntary contributions for the self-employed, where does that leave them? How will they qualify for a state pension then? Or is this a way of making people go private?

I'm glad they've cut NI contributions. I've already got over 40 years and I would have paid nearly 50 years by the time I get my state pension at 67. I'm self employed so this will make a big difference. The system is flawed - my friend who is the same age and hasn't worked for over 10 years will get the same state pension yet has made less than half the contributions I have. It isn't fair that I have to keep paying when I've paid the maximum I need to contribute already.

The NHS could soak up all of GDP without improving. As @Justgotbackhome says, the European insurance based systems are much better run because the providers answer to their patients.

Nope, answered upthread. Like low earning employees, the self employed get a "credit" towards state benefits if their earnings are over a lower earnings threshold for NIC, even though no NICs are actually payable at that level. It's been like that for employees for a few years now, and a couple of years ago, that system was extended to the self employed. It's the same kind of "credit" that people get when they are unemployed or a homemaker with young children or a carer etc. You no longer need to actually "pay" any NIC to get credits towards state benefits.

Yes, I completely agree with cutting NI rather than income tax as it affects workers. Pensioners have got the triple lock confirmed, they don’t need a tax cut too.

I am so pleased as the higher rate threshold has been frozen for years here in Scotland, and income tax rates have gone up and up and up but a NICs cut is something the Scottish government has no control over.

There is £20 billion+ ... taken from NI.

Bad for landlords et al. who only pay income tax on their rent and the like.

Rent is their income - if they run a limited company, they can choose whether to take this as salary via PAYE or as dividends so ultimately, they choose how much national insurance they wish to pay, as do all company directors.

They are very very strict in France. You have to show your passport. Nobody gets through the door except the patient and, if they cannot walk or talk, one named person. If they can walk and talk the named person cannot come in. The hospital will only communicate with that person. It is calm, not crowded and very efficient. You are expected to get an uber/taxi or lift from companion unless you really, really need an ambulance. But it is all very fast and efficient.

Just saw that benefits are going up by 6.7%. How is that going to be funded? My wage hasn’t’t gone up, and the last pay increase I had was three years ago.

Yes, I know. My point is that workers have no choices like that - NIC is imposed on them as they can't "choose" to run a limited company and save NIC in that way.

Somebody has pointed out that by reducing NI while letting 'fiscal drag' increase the take from Income Tax Hunt has turned policy from Thatcher on upon its head.

The saving will go to working people and not pensioners, BTL landlords etc etc.

Have they said they are cutting NHS funding?

I don’t really mind either way but do think the point on who gets a cut is worth making

And workers not retired would be my priority too

The state of our state systems - it is no time for tax cuts- the chancellor, like all the tories is trying anything to keep a vote because this time next year they are gone.
Will I financially benefit yes but to me it’s not worth it, what’s a few quid vs 20hrs in a&e, a crumbling school building and fuck all
police when needed.

I think YABU - this is pre-election bread and circuses. The cuts to NI are worth bugger all, relative to freezing the HR band in an inflationary period. But here, have some peanuts and don't forget to vote Conservative. Grr.

Not that I’ve seen. But the NHS are always saying they don’t have enough. The govt says there’s no more to give them. So it doesn’t add up that the govt then willingly give away 2% of contributions which I’m sure the nhs would have appreciated.

Maybe it really will help “kickstart” the economy and people will spend more and it will help businesses and save jobs. Kickstarting the economy seems to be the politicians buzzword of the day. When in reality for a lot of people they will either save more as they’re already well off, or put it towards food or energy bills.

You’re probably right. It will certainly have been done in a desperate attempt to win votes. Whether it is such a small amount it makes a difference or not I don’t know,

I agree. But then in the next bit of the budget all pensioners are getting an 8.5% pension increase? So pensioners also getting prioritised.

Only a few months ago that the govt said public sector workers couldn’t get a 7% pay rise as no money for it. Only yesterday on here there was a thread by someone saying it’s common for TAs to be teaching classes now as the schools can’t afford qualified teachers for all classes. Hospitals have massive staff shortages because the wages for qualified staff aren’t enough for people to want to stay working there. Nursing degree applications were down 50% last year! People are seeing the headlines about the poor pay and conditions and not even signing up.

They could raise a LOT of tax just by simply rolling NIC into Income tax. It really should be done.

Income tax is not the same as dividend tax - see your comment above.