I don’t want to pay less National Insurance, I’d like a better funded NHS

[CormorantStrikesBack]

🤷‍♀️

obviously I appreciate I’m in a position to think that, but I’m not on a huge wage. I’m glad if it helps people who are struggling but I’m also worried about the nhs, school funding, etc.

They don’t seem to be managing now, I can only imagine it will get worse. There are councils going bankrupt and cutting services, respite care, libraries, etc.

id rather carry on paying what I’m paying than risk such services been funded even less.

It starts to put clear blue sky between the Tories and Labour.

Labour increased tax on workers, via NIC increases. Labour constantly talk about putting more money into public sector, i.e. care, NHS, education, etc. The clear intent is that "workers" pay for it.

Tories are coming out on the side of "workers" who have been disproportionately hit by tax rises over the past 25 years. By reducing NIC rather than reducing income tax, it's a directed tax cut on workers only, i.e. not on pensioners, not on buy to letters, not on rich people living on investment portfolios, etc.

So you can clearly see the battle lines being drawn. Tories are fighting for the votes of workers. It remains to be seen whether Labour will try to win the votes of workers in other ways, or whether they're going to try to rely on the votes of people who don't work!!

Thanks for all the helpful answers to my query.

I agree. I don't see the value in reducing taxes when public services are in such a shit state and also when inflation is still high, the economy isn't fixed, my mortgage is still going to increase by hundreds a month but yay we'll have an extra £100 a month and continued shit services 🙄

@user1497207191 thanks for that. Interesting post and that does make sense. Will certainly be interesting to see what Labour have to say.

Tories are coming out on the side of "workers" who have been disproportionately hit by tax rises over the past 25 years. By reducing NIC rather than reducing income tax, it's a directed tax cut on workers only, i.e. not on pensioners, not on buy to letters, not on rich people living on investment portfolios, etc.

This is not quite correct - someone who runs a limited company will constantly be working out the most efficient way to take their income in terms of the mix of salary and dividends. A reduction in NI may swing the balance in favour of taking a greater portion of their income as salary versus dividends. It all depends on individual circumstances and their portfolio.....so this may well benefit some landlords.

Three dentists near me accepting NHS patients.

A&E all fine.

Two doctors surgeries you can get a same day appointment.

NHS is a money pit. It will take more than just money to improve it.

Think of it instead of a slight bit of relief from the fiscal drag of frozen thresholds which has a much greater affect than a slight NI reduction.

i hear you op and agree. IF spent well, higher taxes are a good thing.

me and dh were out one day talking to a homeless man, afterwards dh said “I’m sure me and my friends would all put in say £10 a month to help someone like that get back on their feet”

my response

that’s literally taxes.

He is self employed, his friends are self employed trades people, they pay all their taxes , through the books etc, but dislike high taxes. After that and a few other conversations he gets it now and is pro higher taxes

Regarding the NHS I did a quick look.
In its 1st year it cost £373m. Adjusted for inflation thats around £16bn today against its current budget of £200bn
If we want a much better NHS ALL of us are going have to pay much, much more tax - and that just not going to happen.

YANBU. I thought the same, taking money from an already poorly funded NHS. This Tory govt are doing their best to finish off the NHS for their friends in the private sector. Absolute bunch of bastards.

@Baffledandalarmed where do you live so we can all ring up the NHS dentists and get on their books please as many of us have no NHS dentist for miles and miles around, round us they don't even have spaces for children. Also would like to get a same day drs appointment and no massive wait for A+E if needed.

Really? I don't see how unless they are extremely high earners?

What is the French income tax scale for 2023?
The country’s progressive tax scale bands for 2023 are now as follows:
Per household unit (for more on this, see our guide Understanding French Tax- What is a Fiscal Household in France?)

• Up to €10,777: 0% tax rate
• From €10,778 to €27,478: 11% tax rate
• From €27,479 to €78,570: 30% tax rate
• From €78,571 to €168,994: 41% tax rate
• More than €168,994: 45% tax rate

Unfortunately though I think much of Europe has better health care than we do. The problem is OP it doesn't matter how much money we throw at the NHS nothing is going to solve the huge problems with it where there is so much wastage, so many poor decision makers, too many managers, no joined up thinking, too much out sourced and so done poorly (ie cleaning), such shortages of staff and those there are often not treated well, demotivated, just turning up for their pay check. It's poorly run and sadly I don't think it matters how much money you throw at it. I think it needs scrapping and starting over.

I need to move to near you. Not a single dentist in the whole city has taken nhs patients on for over five years. I can rarely get a GP appt, I ring at 8am on the dot and by the time I get through the appts have gone. I tend just to go to the urgent treatment centre instead. Dh has had a weird rash for six weeks and lost weight and hasn’t been able to see a doctor. A&e regularly reports 24 hour waits. 🤷‍♀️

Study after study after study shows that the NHS has too few managers. It is badly run with poor workplace practices and high wastage because there are too few managers.

Absolutely. 2% less NI makes fuck all difference to me, but could make a massive difference in many places. Social care would be a great start - get people out of hospital, freeing up the NHS again.

We need a General Election, and we need to pay MORE into the central pots, not less.

They could and it's been thought through on multiple occasions but rejected as 'unfair' to, in particular, older people on pensions.

I pay NIC on my earnings as a Welfare Rights Adviser for a charity but not on my Civil Service pension. I'd be a lot worse off if I had to pay it on the pension.

A friend of mine genuinely travels 3 hours for an nhs dentist, sadly her dentist isn’t even taking anyone on now.

I was on PAYE for my whole career. DC are self employed. We all pay every penny of tax that we should. Tax evasion is a huge problem, as is the enormous cost of useful degrees like medicine and nursing (and allied professions). The country is so disorganised and the lining of the pockets of cronies and the appalling behaviour during lockdown is not going to be mitigated by promising a NI reduction for a few people.

That doesn't account for the increase in population, of which the majority will be ageing and in need of greater medical intervention.
We've had life expectancy increase by around 17 years since the NHS was conceived!

OP, I do agree with you that you services, in particular health and education should be better funded before we reduce taxation. However, this is a Conservative government that people (not me) voted for and part Conservative policy is to reduce taxation.
If this government is going to reduce taxation, I think it is a good one to reduce as it is a tax on working people. I am a pensioner and I pay no national insurance. There are many working families who at the moment are having trouble making ends meet and they can certainly do with national insurance being reduced.

I'm alright Jack.

The NHS is broken and more money won't fix it.

My newborn is currently in in NICU all I can see is the nhs is underfunded. The model needs more funding not less.

By "benefits" you mean pensions and the NHS.

Presumably you hope to die young.