Is this a thing? Or is my friend deluded about her dc?

[in183]

Friend has a one year old, who will grab your arm/hand to make you press a button or point to something. Friend is ADAMANT that after having five children that she knows it is a sign of extreme intelligence. I’ve recently had a child and I’m being asked almost every few days if they’ve started to do it. Maybe I’m just sleep deprived but I think it’s absolutely crazy (and bloody annoying to be asked all the time). She is smart generally but I honestly can’t get my head around why she feels so strongly about it!!! Is this a thing?

Ps, I think the behaviour is called joint referencing, if I recall correctly, and the child should be doing it by 12 months.

Before I get flamed...I am ND and just giving anecdotal history from my own life.

Anyway, the only two children that I personally know who did this (one family member, one friend's child) are both autistic. Both very intelligent, with one being exceptionally gifted at maths, but both struggle very much with sensory issues and communication with their peers, needing a lot of emotional support.

Tell her horses also understand about pointing. This study shows they understand when humans point https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95727-8 There are others that show horses can 'point' themselves but it would take me a while to find them. So I wouldn't set any store by it as an indicator of human abilities.

And again...

Hand leading is not an absolute sign that a child is definitely neurodivergent. Not all ND children do this and not all children who do this are ND.

It is (as I made very clear) a potential early indicator of neurodivergence. One of many potential early indicators, and one to be taken in context of a child's overall development and skills.

I'm surprised by how many posters seem to think the words "potential" and "indicator" are absolutes. Very strange.

My youngest apparently has a very high IQ. Testing was done as part of ASD assessment, but I've also had it said to me by his early teachers. He's doing fine at school but not brilliantly. The only real sign I've seen of brilliance is his very creative ability to lie and his utter commitment to those lies.

My only one that did this has ASD, but is also very intelligent. Is all of this coincidence? Very likely.

"No she doesn't do that, she doesn't need to now she's talking and can tell me what she wants. Didn't any of your children talk at 7 months...?"

I would stear clear or send a strong message that you're not interested in comparing your child's milestones with hers.
If she is already starting with this at 7 months, it will never end...

.

Tell her yours is too busy preparing for Grade one piano exam and/or learning Greek.

Thank you - some common sense.

Different children pick up different strategies at different ages.

Hand leading might be common in neurodiversity, but isn't confined to it. Nor is is necessarily a signal of high intelligence.

Children with siblings often do pick up some strategies more quickly - and others with siblings may be slower to do so because their brothers and sisters may do things for them so they don't need to bother.

Early childhood is a rich diversity.

@in183 - just agree with your friend that she has a genius (who might also neurodiverse - they aren't mutually exclusive), let her comments flow over and around you, like a Zen meditation, and enjoy watching your own baby learn and progress at their own rate.

Obviously its a huge spectrum but yes often nonverbal children do use objects of reference to communicate ,my non verbal 13 year old has always done this taken me to.things passed me cups ,plates etc if he's hungey,thirsty etc
It can be an early sign for SOME children.

Agree with this. Avoid, you'll end up measuring your child instead of just letting them be at their own pace.

You can't change anything so just get on with having a nice time. My dc had different reactions/ growth/ learning which is only to be expected as they are completely different unique people just like you and me.

very creative ability to lie and his utter commitment to those lies.

A political career beckons . . .

It sounds like she is worried because she has read online that it's a red flag for autism ( which it is) Don't offer false re assurance unless you know the child is developing typically . My son with autism did handleading and using adult's hand as a tool and it was very noticably different from any other toddler.

Yes its a huge spectrum however ,autism can also come with associated learning disabilities for some, and ,some children and adults will be non verbal.and use hand leading and objects of reference as a form of communication

That's really interesting - thank you.

So do gun dogs and border collies.

My spaniels both point and understand a point. My terriers would point at things they wanted me to do, but just looked looked at me as though I was cracked if I pointed at anything I wanted them to take notice of - but terriers are stubborn little buggers and probably just weren't prepared to take orders from the person whose task in life was to feed, walk, groom and play with, and adore, them. (You don't let the servant classes order you about.)

(Other dogs may also utilise pointing strategies. I don't have experience of other types)

I had a spaniel who did this a lot he was smart.

I also had a son who could fib for England convincingly.

With five kids it's amazing that she has the time to notice unless she's worried

"Can you please stop questioning my babies development, thanks."

😱 the horror

I'm thinking super vilan, he's very into revenge. When he was a toddler he used to wee on his siblings beds if he was angry at them, oe6 hidw their favourite toys, or throw something of theirs in the toilet or down the heating vents. He had a severe language delay, he's not quite so psycho now he can talk😅. He has a great poker face so high stakes gambler might be an option too.

God there's some right classic mn responses on here!

Nowhere has it been remotely suggested that autism and intelligence can't go hand in hand but pp was quite right in saying that hand leading is a potential sign of ASD. I haven't ever been told it's a sign of intelligence but that doesn't mean that an intelligent person can't have ASD just that the correlation with hand leading and intelligence isn't there but it is with ASD. When you actively search for bullshit reasons to be offended by something and fail to apply any kind of logic or critical thinking you totally cheapen any genuine efforts towards tolerence and diversity. Wind your neck in fgs

And a 1 year old being a menace?!... He isn't a menace he's a baby doing what babys are meant to do. Jesus wept

Tell her your child woke up picked up chalk and wrote some physics formula on the chalkboard in the nursery.

Scenarios
This one baby is more advanced then his siblings were at that age.
Maybe her last baby? Everything seems wow because you pay more attention because you know how time flies.
As far as actual development goes this is pretty 'normal'
Neuroduversity - some on the spectrum struggle to communicate or to be able to gesture / point / push buttons themselves this would only be an indicator at 2+

Oooh!

That would be exciting!

You could be the Power behind his Evil Throne - the only person who can get him to behave himself.

"Now, now, @EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness-son, you give the Crown Jewels back to the King this instant, and say you are sorry, and then you can go to your room and think about what you've done. You may be 46 but you aren't to big to be grounded!"

"But Muuuuuuum . . . "

"NOW!

"I'm so sorry your Majesty - you know what kids are like these days!"

<shouts up the stairs>

"And no sneaking out of the window to wee on the Detective Inspector's bed. I don't want his mother coming round complaining."

<turns to king and policemen>

"Would you like a cup of tea while you're here? We have chocolate malted milk biscuits, or gingersnaps."

If I were youI would get cracking on a Supervillain costume for him now. He sounds like he is going to be in the news pretty soon. 😂