To think State education is really poor?

[Boswelian]

We sent our eldest to a taster day at a private school. He was agog. His school don't allow playing on the grass when it's wet. The private school change them into waterproofs and wellies for break. PE 3x a week. Sport every day. Dedicated specialist teaching in art, DT, languages, sciences etc. 16 in a class instead of 30. The difference in the quality of life between the two school has really blown my mind. The state school is "outstanding". The private school reckon DS is 2 years behind their curriculum. We've been told in state that he's meeting expectations. How is this remotely acceptable?

25 years ago at the local junior private school the had volunteers every day to do 1:1 reading with the children in turn, every single day. At the junior state school they said they didn't need volunteers every day and one day a week was adequate.

It came down to attitude not resources

@MikeRafone "It came down to attitude not resources"

Love me a 25 year old anecdote.

Exactly. Instead of encouraging apprenticeships (with Tony Blairs son did and made millions) they encouraged everyone to go to university and so had to stop free tution and grants.

We have spent tens of billions on 3rd rate universities which should be shut down. Hopefully they go bankrupt now that the flood of overseas students has been stopped.

Starmer 🤷‍♀️He went to an excellent school and was intelligent, with supportive family.
Streeting - don’t know much about him
Rayner - totally agree, so impressed with what she has achieved.

Nonetheless - Labour do not encourage people to succeed. Having AR in their party doesn’t change that.

@Papyrophile

‘social mobility plummeted when the universal 11+ was abolished’

Absolutely.

Yes it did.

Yes!!

There’s some nonsense written on this thread.

People are too passive these days and too keen to blame the system for their own shortcomings. Even if it is true it’s a pretty counterproductive way to behave.

Personal responsibility and drive are key. Everyone I know who has that does well. Those that don’t generally do much worse.

The insidious move towards almost celebration of victim culture is one of the most damaging trends in current society.

There was a thread on here a few days ago saying pretty much the sane thing ie people look to the state to solve all of their issues rather than look to how they can improve their own situation.
Of course there are always people who need additional state support but ultimately shouldn't we be responsible for our own lives?
The whole VAT thing is a distraction from the wider issues in the education system. Labour bank on the electorate for not digging into details and just accepting the soundbite. They don't care about education any more than the Tories, they just pretend that they do. I don't support Tories but sure as hell I don't trust Labour either. Considering 19% of Labour MPs were privately educated I think they are hypocrites.

Darling, Private schools are a BUSINESS. Among us, marketeers is a specialism : marketing in education.
Private schools always say that the child is two hears behind because they hope you will enroll. Apart from superselective private schools they are all struggling to get the clients.
If your child is ultra sporty then yes, maybe it makes sense. But I would dismiss things as changing to wellies as things of not a significant importance.

Private schools have also disavantages. They cannot afford losing clients, therefore many behavioral issues are swept under the carpet and trust me, children are bullied not only in state schools. There is favouritism.Children of wealthy donors, who pay far more than tution fees are treated in a superb way at a disadvantage of other kids.
Also, as you have all sorts of parent background in state schools, you also have the same at private. Yes, you can have a child of Russian mafia mobs too. There is a lot of issues why private are worse than state schools and vice versa.

A lot depends on WHICH private and which state school.

@JustWingItLifeEyelinerEverything

‘A lot depends on WHICH private and which state school’

On that I agree, darling.

This is irony, right?

Ah, but grammar schools are not fair so Labour abolished them. Ideology before all else. Before the abolition, our education system was world leading - British children leaving grammar school were educated to an American university standard. I wonder if we’ll look back to the imposition of VAT on private schools (the first, I suspect, of a number of measures designed to throttle the private sector) and observe how destructive it was?

And grammars often are running purely on the legend and the past glory. Many grammars have had been downgraded from Oustanding to Good because the teaching is not Outstanding. There were instances of few that were closed because of poor management. There is one that was closed and converted to comprehensive because of bullying kids, and racial abuse.

Your continued avoidance to answer my question - did you vote Labour before when you knew all this? - speaks volumes. Fine to go along with it all when it does not have a personal impact?This is precisely why such posts don’t have credibility when arguing against VAT on the school fees. There is so much trumped up speculation about anticipated impact on society when it is clear that in many cases it has much more to do with vested interest than anything bigger.

I’ve never voted Labour in my entire life. I’m not sure that makes me any more qualified than others to be critical of their awful anti education policies.

Arguably those who have voted Labour before and now see them for what they really are should be listened to even more.

Why does my previous voting record matter? Can I only comment if I have/have never voted Labour?

@Twistyizzy posters are clearly free to comment as they please. Other posters are also free to decide how much weight posts carry and the level of self-interest of a poster in the issue has a bearing on that. That's all.

With such hypothetical defectors, is it just pure coincidence that the scales fall from their eyes at the same time as Labour comes up with a policy that directly impacts them?

The majority of people vote in self interest though so that's ridiculous. Who would vote for a party who would make them worse off (not just talking about financially worse off)?

I’d argue that most of the posters in favour of the policy support it because they like the idea someone else will be paying.

Tax proposals that impact a small minority of people are always popular with the masses. It doesn’t make them right.

The reality is if we are talking about improving state education the way to replicate what happens in countries widely deemed to have a better system than UK is to tax lower and middle earners far more heavily. People earning 20k-50k salaries pay way more tax in those countries. Maybe we should all start campaigning for that instead?

I’d argue that most of the posters in favour of the policy support it because they like the idea someone else will be paying.

Of course. It’s an extra tax that isn’t theirs

Although it might feel good I doubt it will do much for education, unfortunately

There are better ways to improve state

That's quite a negative view of other people's motivations. I think it's more that it has support because private education is viewed as a luxury choice and that they believe the luxury should be taxed. Or maybe they just don't care either way.

Speak for yourself.

VAT isn't a luxury tax. That's a misconception eg ice cream is taxed but frozen yoghurt is zero rated. Not as simple as luxury items. Dried cherries are zero rated for VAT.