To think State education is really poor?

[Boswelian]

We sent our eldest to a taster day at a private school. He was agog. His school don't allow playing on the grass when it's wet. The private school change them into waterproofs and wellies for break. PE 3x a week. Sport every day. Dedicated specialist teaching in art, DT, languages, sciences etc. 16 in a class instead of 30. The difference in the quality of life between the two school has really blown my mind. The state school is "outstanding". The private school reckon DS is 2 years behind their curriculum. We've been told in state that he's meeting expectations. How is this remotely acceptable?

Not many parents pay from 4-18 and a lot mix and match state.

The issue is the privately educated with the same grades unfairly represented in the top jobs and unis. It needs to be recognised and measures put in place to stop it. Then frankly nobody will give a shit about private education at all- but of course those in the private system don’t want that. They want the status quo to carry on whilst pretending to care. 😂

I can see you are sold on the policy but it won’t do what you’re after

Well the extra cash will be useful. But like many I will expect labour to bring in other measures on top to counteract the unfairness and inequality in all sectors of life caused by private education.

…And his Education Secretary; Ruth Kelly at the time IIRC, scrapped support for night schools, stopping adult learners being able to access qualifications. It was so sudden that the college (16-19 in the day but did night school too) I worked at had people on the doors on the evening that the night school should have started, apologising and having to refund everyone who’d booked on to classes as they could no longer run them.

@Fionaville this doesn't surprise me. But I dont think it follows that the private school is "better". Exam results tend to reflect the catchment / demographics of the pupil population

What extra cash? If >10% of DC leave private schools then the net income will be £0.
There has already been a 2.7% reduction before Laboir have even won the election.
The policy is not sustainable as it will result in behaviour change.
If Labour were truly bothered about improving schools they would raise revenue through income tax. As an example, a 1p ring fenced education tax for higher rate payers could bring in £10+billion per year. However they aren't propsing that are they?

It is pretty much the exact opposite of this.

Virtually all the private school parents I know have had experience of decent state schools whether that be as children themselves, through a mix of private and state use or from friends and family experiences.

They would love to have this for their own children however the option is not always there in their locality.

If there was excellent state school provision local to me I would not be spending 250k on private schools.

This is why the tax feels so unfair. It will cost me an additional 50k simply because I live in the wrong post code. Other families living a short distance away in excellent state catchment areas can afford to earn far less, pay less tax, have a decent level of schooling provided and yet have the same disposable income as we do.

When parents who were fortunate enough to live in excellent state catchment areas start commenting about private schools I would flip the original question around and ask does anyone think that those defending excellent state schools have very little experience of poor state schools? Perhaps if they did they’d understand the position many of us who are effectively forced to use private schools find ourselves in. We don’t spend £250k+ for no reason.

Very cruel to say all state schools are “crap”. Awful.

Mine thriving in a single sex state dd1 aced her GCSEs and on track for top a levels top
level university offers nice decent like minded friends. We supplement sport and tutors where needed. It’s not perfect but many of the teachers are amazing. The biggest issue seems to be teacher retention. I do resent it when some of those that choose to privately educate want to justify their choice by slagging off state schools. Had it in real life it’s not on. .

No-ones forcing you to do anything, if there's enough of you in that area, send your kids local and raise it's standards and spend the extra cash on extra curricular

Ofsted ratings mean very little to many families. Our local “good” state primary is dreadful. Pupils join in reception far exceeding national averages in assessments, and yet leave in year 6 performing far below average. Around 60% leave without having reached the expected standards in English and maths. Pupils and teachers are leaving in droves. There have been violent incidents. Perhaps Ofsted views that as “good”. As a parent, I certainly don’t.

Well the extra cash will be useful. But like many I will expect labour to bring in other measures on top to counteract the unfairness and inequality in all sectors of life caused by private education.

HumourM3 what other measures will Labour bring in?

There are loads of wonderful, inspirational teachers in state schools. Who are there because they believe every kid should get a chance. Yes we have low budgets and less equipment (rainwear for the whole school? No way) but that in no way means we are crap teachers! We are also juggling a wide range of needs with far higher numbers. But unless you are exceptionally well off and can afford to dismiss us, you should appreciate that most of us are doing the best we can for your kid! I know there are some crap teachers. They annoy good teachers just as much as they annoy the parents. But your OP is just plain silly. Of course if you pay loads you get more equipment and opportunities. The issue is you have to pay.

You do realise there won’t be any additional cash. Even Labour has agreed that the headline figure is misleading.

Firstly there is the cost to fund additional state places.

Secondly there is a cost caused by the change in behaviour that will result from the move to state. If I use state schools I won’t pay 250k fees. I also won’t pay 50k VAT. But more significant than that I won’t need 600k of earnings to fund the 300k I no longer need to pay. This means 300k less income tax receipts as I’ll work 4 days, retire earlier etc.

It soon becomes obvious that this policy will actually cost the tax payer money.

The majority will be paying it. When you’re paying the equivalent of a salary and apparantly the alternative is so dire I’m pretty sure most will find it. Stop scaremongering.

That’s definitely Labour talking! Push people down.

No the biggest cause of inequality in this country is private education

6% of children being educated privately really isn’t the biggest cause of inequality.

There are huge inequalities within the state system as shown by this thread; some can access great state education, others only have dreadful schools to choose from. Health inequalities, long term unemployment, homelessness, sex and racial inequalities; these are huge causes of inequality. Perhaps politicians would do better to address these issues rather than focussing on a minority of people in private schools.

This isn’t scaremongering, it is projected fact based on sound economics.
We can't afford VAT as yhat will be 20% plus fee rise per year. I am providing an educated counterpoint to Labour's flawed reasoning.

Quite. It's just self interested hysteria. We can all see through it.

Plus plenty of private schools don't even perform that well academically and plenty of state schools get excellent results. There's no way I would send my bright son to any of the local private schools

I don’t think it helps that people block out stats

Economically it doesn’t stack up, plus the other downsides

So why the need to punish private schools if they aren't even that good. Let us waste our money sending our DC to inferior schools. You realise that for every DC that leaves private school for state that there is a new burden on the state to fund their place? Plus the amount raised in VAT goes down.

Well there you go you’ve saved money. Private schools don’t even perform that well. Leave people who pay for both via taxes and fees as they are, it frees up spaces in state.

I’d prefer smaller state classes than bringing more from private

The issue is the privately educated with the same grades unfairly represented in the top jobs and unis

This is the problem with the view of education in this country. Too many people are obsessed with the grades and piece of paper given at the end of 14 years of education. Education should be about so much more than this. It’s about nurturing and developing decent human beings, exploring their strengths and finding out what they are good at. We are increasingly competing on a global stage with countries where children have had a brilliant education; an education which has taught them more than merely how to pass an exam.

It’s not hugely unusual these days for pupils to get straight As in all their exams. Employers and universities have to differentiate between them somehow. They look for soft skills which many private schools (and some state schools) have taught their pupils. It’s why many parents choose private education. It’s about so much more than exam results.

1.6 billion is something like 2% of the total education budget. It sounds a lot but is nowhere near enough to be transformative

Of course they won’t. They know there’s no cash to expand the education system enough to accommodate an extra half a million pupils.