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AIBU?

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Original poster

Rwanda plan

949 replies

AdamRyan · 16/11/2023 23:05

Was just reading Suella Bravermans thoughts on how to make the Rwanda plan work, which involve sending staff there to review claims and pulling out of all human rights and refugee conventions.

The plan has cost £140m to Rwanda so far, plus £££££ in legal fees and so far we've sent no-one and found out its illegal. I'm very baffled as to why the government are pursuing it, I keep hearing that "most people" support it. So I thought I'd ask:

IABU: It's a priority as it will deter immigration and the government should spend whatever money and time it takes to deliver this

IANBU: The government should focus time/money on other priorities instead.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
43
CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau · 14/12/2023 17:58

Actually not even until then because the government actually does have a magic money tree, it just doesn’t want to use it.

jgw1 · 14/12/2023 18:00

TizerorFizz · 14/12/2023 17:54

Unfortunately our wages have stagnated and we are paying more tax and with so many feeling the pinch, there isn’t more money. We cannot keep affording a Rolls Royce service on Mini money. We need to accept change.

Japan isn’t the uk. It’s one example. They are nearly twice the size of us. Of course we need immigration. Look how Tony Blair was blamed by nearly everyone for letting in Europeans! We just have huge numbers of people who don’t like immigrants until they need them. It appears we don’t want the work available and want others to dk
it. Except we don’t because they are immigrants! No one will ever win this battle . Unless we get much tougher on benefits - which we won’t.

The funny thing is much like the austerity of Cameron and Osborne getting tough on benefits is a false economy. You might save a small amount of money in the short term, but in the longer term the consequences of poor housing and diet on ill health are such that the additional costs will dwarf the saving.

EasternStandard · 14/12/2023 18:12

TizerorFizz · 14/12/2023 17:54

Unfortunately our wages have stagnated and we are paying more tax and with so many feeling the pinch, there isn’t more money. We cannot keep affording a Rolls Royce service on Mini money. We need to accept change.

Japan isn’t the uk. It’s one example. They are nearly twice the size of us. Of course we need immigration. Look how Tony Blair was blamed by nearly everyone for letting in Europeans! We just have huge numbers of people who don’t like immigrants until they need them. It appears we don’t want the work available and want others to dk
it. Except we don’t because they are immigrants! No one will ever win this battle . Unless we get much tougher on benefits - which we won’t.

Immigration is usually used for economic growth and gov will use it up to a point. Ie 750k may spark backlash but if they can under a level they will.

However it’s a pyramid structure which isn’t really sustainable. Where we get off the Ponzi scheme may well be AI / tech reducing need for expanding workforce

Which is lucky as western lifestyle tends to be more consumption based and if we keep expanding we just add to that which adds to climate issues

So AI may stop that need and we get to move away from a pyramid

DuncinToffee · 14/12/2023 18:17

I wonder how AI will replace for example cleaners, care workers and nurses

jgw1 · 14/12/2023 18:18

DuncinToffee · 14/12/2023 18:17

I wonder how AI will replace for example cleaners, care workers and nurses

Don't worry the @DuncinToffee the aim of Rishi and the other fans of AI is for the rich to get even richer as a result of it and the rest of us to get poorer.

EasternStandard · 14/12/2023 18:19

Maybe people here will need jobs since theirs have been replaced…

EasternStandard · 14/12/2023 18:21

It’ll be interesting given some views on who should do the jobs

DuncinToffee · 14/12/2023 18:30

Guess bankers can retrain as care workers, might even raise the wages of care workers.

EasternStandard · 14/12/2023 18:32

We’re pretty pampered by people arriving to do jobs we seem less keen on doing, I can see why people want it to go on in a continuous pyramid.

Maybe we’ll do our own cleaning and care

bombastix · 14/12/2023 18:33

Seriously I assume that AI will probably keep a small number of us as pets! The idea that we would have any useful function is laughable really, because AI will have more data to analyse; for example the doctor becomes little more than a person who perhaps is a friendly interface but the actual clinic decisions will be made by AI. End of all those nice middle class professionals really.

DuncinToffee · 14/12/2023 18:36

This pyramid structure idea, who is at the top?

EasternStandard · 14/12/2023 18:38

Westerners so far it seems given we rely on people doing jobs we’re less keen on

EasternStandard · 14/12/2023 18:41

In usual definition though it’s reference to aging population needing a broader base of workers

Which may well change as workforce contracts. Which is good because continuous expansion of word population isn’t proving that good for climate

jgw1 · 14/12/2023 18:56

DuncinToffee · 14/12/2023 18:53

This is the governments current occupation shortlist

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/skilled-worker-visa-shortage-occupations/skilled-worker-visa-shortage-occupations

Not many that can be replaced by AI

Are you seriously saying that AI can't roof homes and take part in archeological digs?

EasternStandard · 14/12/2023 18:59

So we’ve moved from care workers and cleaners

This will be interesting..

I’m starting to have sympathy with the view of westerners expecting people to pick up what they won’t

greengreengrass25 · 14/12/2023 19:10

DuncinToffee · 14/12/2023 18:55

And Brexit has helped keeping immigrant workers wages low

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1729094521454272829.html

It kept the UK population wages low in the first place

DuncinToffee · 14/12/2023 19:34

No we haven't moved on from cleaners and carers, they are still on the government list.

You are not a westener?

EasternStandard · 14/12/2023 19:37

I sure am but this thread shows our privilege

I hadn’t really given it much thought but seeing it makes me sympathise with those that suggest it

DuncinToffee · 14/12/2023 19:47

EasternStandard · 14/12/2023 19:37

I sure am but this thread shows our privilege

I hadn’t really given it much thought but seeing it makes me sympathise with those that suggest it

Who are those that suggest it?

EasternStandard · 14/12/2023 19:49

You don’t think some view westerners as privileged? Why not?

But yes this idea that we can’t do our own care and cleaning pretty much sums it up.

Notonthestairs · 14/12/2023 20:05

How much care have you provided Eastern?
Did you find it easy to hold down a job and provide care for a vulnerable family member?
Do you think more people should - or will - give up work to do that?
How do you think that benefits the wider economy?
Do you think more women will feel the impact of that policy than men?
Or are you in favour of increasing the benefits paid to family carers?

greengreengrass25 · 14/12/2023 20:13

EasternStandard · 14/12/2023 19:37

I sure am but this thread shows our privilege

I hadn’t really given it much thought but seeing it makes me sympathise with those that suggest it

Speak for yourself😕

EasternStandard · 14/12/2023 20:21

greengreengrass25 · 14/12/2023 20:13

Speak for yourself😕

Show quote history

Which part? If you have been making an argument that low wage immigration suppresses wages here then I may not disagree with you

I know some business owners were lamenting having to lift wages and were keen on two year visas to mitigate