Rwanda plan

[AdamRyan]

Was just reading Suella Bravermans thoughts on how to make the Rwanda plan work, which involve sending staff there to review claims and pulling out of all human rights and refugee conventions.

The plan has cost £140m to Rwanda so far, plus £££££ in legal fees and so far we've sent no-one and found out its illegal. I'm very baffled as to why the government are pursuing it, I keep hearing that "most people" support it. So I thought I'd ask:

IABU: It's a priority as it will deter immigration and the government should spend whatever money and time it takes to deliver this

IANBU: The government should focus time/money on other priorities instead.

It worked in Australia.

They telling it all to discourage people taking so much risk to cross the ocean and enter into UK, instead they making facilities for any new assylum seekers travel towards Rwanda?

Assylum seekers should stop fleeing thinking of ending up in Rwanda?

I don’t think this particular plan of sending to Rwanda is realistic. To make sure that it’s safe according to international law we need to redo nearly the whole system in Rwanda. It’s not possible.

Polling shows consistently that the vast majority of the public want to be able to afford to pay for things and to have a functioning NHS as their priorities.

The boats/Rwanda thing is starting to look like the Tories' ideological equivalent of a section of Labour MPs wanting to put male rapists in women's prisons. Batshit.

So people trying to get into Aus are sent to Rwanda? I just thought they sent out their Navy gun boats and intercepted them.

Here, we have the rule of law which applies to the government as well as you and me. This case has gone to the highest court: the Supreme Court. This is now yet another occasion where a Tory Government is trying to avoid a Supreme Court decision. No doubt they will rubbish the judges (all of whom do a better job then Braverman) and try and amend the law to suit them making the court decision irrelevant. Essentially it stinks. Like trying to prorogue parliament.

We were major players on the world stage when it came to human rights via ECHR and now we are the nasty country who backtracks on our agreements. No wonder no one takes us seriously any more. Brexit and now no respect for our courts. We need to wake up or our independent judicial system will be taken away by stealth, If a government doesn’t abide by the rule of law, what next?

YANBU - we have no idea who supports what immigration policies. The Tories spin that everyone supports this policy. I’m not so sure. I support making legal decisions about whether people have a right to stay here or not - quickly. If not, deport them. Do it legally.

@TizerorFizz

So people trying to get into Aus are sent to Rwanda? I just thought they sent out their Navy gun boats and intercepted them.

I believe @VeniVidiWeeWee is referring to Australia's offshore processing system as a parallel. Asylum seekers are sent to Nauru and Papua New Guinea while their claims are considered.

which involve sending staff there to review claims and pulling out of all human rights and refugee conventions.

I volunteer to staff it. Rwanda is gorgeous. I'll unfortunately agree every single claim and send every single human being back to the UK. But I will climb mountains, hang out with gorillas and have a lovey time while I'm doing it.

Or, here's a though, something sane.

How tf has it cost £140 million before legal fees and it's not even set up?

Why can’t we focus on targeting the companies who manufacture the boats…

work at preventing them coming here in the first place

It is an appalling, inhumane idea. Why the heck would they want to go to Rwanda to live?

Can't tell if this is a joke or serious

The agreement is only for a very small number as well. Less than 200 I think. Therefore I believe the larger plan is to use it to withdraw from all human rights and other agreements.

We abandoned our own bill of human rights some time ago. Stating it as not required with these agreements. To withdraw from them as well would leave us with none. How many inhuman acts will be carried out without them? This is so far reachjng, as the underlying principles in employment and disability rights along with judicial process have all been attacked by government and repelled on this basis.This is a terrifying prospect.

Ma Y European countries are tweaking their immigration laws. Austria and Germany are looking at Rwanda or similar - France dropped the Schengen Agreement on its Italian border and just buses immigrants bavck to Italy. It’s a shambles and there are millions of people in poorly functioning countries who would move here and there’s nothing stopping them.
They’ll just disappear into the black economy.
The rich can move abroad.

They are keeping it an the agenda to keep appealing to its appalling right wing nut job voters. It's that clear. This is because they have nothing left.

@TizerorFizz So people trying to get into Aus are sent to Rwanda? I just thought they sent out their Navy gun boats and intercepted them

Yes, and then do what with them? Throw a party with pizza and steamers? No, they don’t set foot on Australian soil, instead being immediately taken to really really shitty and unsafe places outside Australia (where agreements have been made and our government pays for it), while the powers that be in Australia take decades to consider their claims. It’s called off-shore processing. It’s the equivalent of your Rwanda.

It has up and downsides. The upside is that it has greatly decreased the number of boats attempting the journey. Therefore, decreasing incidents and deaths at sea. It’s meant to be that the refugees must stop in a ‘safe country’ where their claim will be processed faster. Whereas the boats all leave from ‘safe countries’ to come to Australia but the people prefer Australia to these countries. So the deterrent is that the places they will wait for decades for processing are far less desirable to them than the safe countries where they are meant to be processed quicker.

The downside is that it means that you have people stuck in really shitty countries, no one consider liveable and that have constant civil unrest/war for decades, and this includes children. At times, taxpayers fund really ill people special military transport over to Australia to be treated (as facilities there are not great for serious matters), then escorted transport back offshore. It’s eye wateringly expensive. It’s also very difficult for people there as there is no end date. In fact, it could be that you are deemed to be a genuine refugee so the outcome is you then transfer to the local community (third world), you will still never get to see Australia.

No of course it’s not going to work as a deterrent, you’d need to deport tens of thousands for it to actually be effective like that, and each person costs a small fortune.
Why would refugees that have battled half way across the world be put off by a 0.5% chance of being sent to Rwanda?

Stupid idea only designed to whip up hatred and division, and achieve precisely zero, although you can bet there’s a few Tories that have nice little contracts embedded somewhere in there. See also Bibby Stockholm.

Obviously I'm aware you're joking.

But I just wanted to clarify that approving the claims doesn't mean they come back to the UK. As in, that's not even what they're applying for if sent to Rwanda, it's not an option available to them. They are sent to Rwanda and even if they are judged to have a genuine asylum claim, they then stay in Rwanda.

They aren't being sent while their claim is processed and then brought back to the UK if successful. They don't come back.

I think that gets missed in the reporting sometimes.

@HoppingPavlova I guess that’s what the uk government wants too. However we think an African country is a good idea and the Supreme Court says it’s illegal. The government is now going to declare Rwanda safe by legislation. You could not make it up ! Oh hang on, they are!

Australia is not known for its liberal policies. Very keen to have uk trained doctors but not so keen to have less desirable people. We are clearly of the same ilk.

Bump for the voting please 🙏

YANBU. There's so much bigger issues they should be focusing on, like cost of living, NHS, schools, climate change. it's ridiculous, it's such a non issue. The UK needs a system of properly assessing and handling asylum claims.

Depends what you mean by "worked". Such an inherently racist country, I was shocked when i live there.

@PinkRoses1245 has helped to drastically reduce the incidents and deaths at sea. By encouraging refugees to stay in a ‘safe’ country on the way while applying for asylum, as opposed to getting on a boat and taking their chances. Does this help you?

Someone gets it.

Yep, this is just the start. 80 million people get added to the planet every year. A lot of those will be attracted by what Europe offers.

If they collectively got their shit together they cross the Channel in their thousands every day and there would be fuck all to stop them. The government bangs on about crossings being down this year but that's only because the weather was shit compared to last year.

Let's see if Germany successfully push through their offshoring plan, but in 10 years time it will all seem a quaint idea, and ultimately futile against the numbers involved who will try to enter Europe.

@CrispsandCheeseSandwich yes I was joking. But I do appreciate you clarifying. I was trying to show how utterly absurd it is but honestly, this lot are so self-parodying, it's difficult to know if people understand quite how far they will go.

It is a totally batshit idea. First time I read it, I thought it was a joke.

Firstly, it seems like a remnant from the colonial era, when we got other nations to do our dirty work for us.

Secondly, the practicalities would mean only very few immigrants would ever go there.

And finally, even if we’re legal, the first sign of abuse or someone being deported and then abused /killed back in their own country would lead to it being abandoned and a massive legal bill.

This Tory government is feeling like the last days of the Roman Empire.