To tell the school not to punish the child that hit my DD?

[Whatwouldyoudo24]

Okay so not exactly don’t punish him, but that I think their punishment is ridiculous?

DD is 5 (YR1) and in a mixed YR1/YR2 class. This other child (let’s call him Donald) is in YR2 and he had a lot of settling in issues at the beginning of the year and was often lashing out at the younger children in the class.

My daughter came home and told me what was happening so I had a meeting with her teacher where she mentioned that Donald is being assessed for SEN and has had the same teacher in reception and YR1 so understandably was struggling with the transition. The teacher explained the things they were putting in place to minimise any issues and they all seemed reasonable.

Me and my daughter had a conversation about Donald and I said to stay away from him as much as possible and if there were any issues to let the teacher know, but to also highlight any moments where Donald was kind as the teacher said he responded really well to positive praise.

This was in September and all has been fine since, DD has only mentioned the kind things Donald has done. Today she has come home and said he has hit her in the stomach, ‘not really hard but it’s wasn’t very kind and it made her really sad’, she said this happened on the way into assembly as Donald felt like she was too close to him.

Obviously this is not okay, and I was planning on mentioning it to teacher tomorrow so that they could be aware that moving into assembly is obviously overwhelming for Donald so they could maybe have him slightly ahead of the rest of the class to reduce this issue.

This evening I’ve received a message from her teacher saying that DD has told her Donald has hit her in the stomach and that they are taking away his entire lunch break tomorrow, so they ‘have it in hand’.

Personally I think this is ridiculous, obviously it’s not okay that DD was hit but I can’t see how removing the only portion of the day that allows children to release the energy and frustration that builds after hours in a classroom is going to help? I worry that by the afternoon he will be in a position that is very difficult to regulate his emotions and it could lead to many more issues? I also think it’s just cruel to take away a lunch break for a 6 year old child with possible SEN.

I want to reply and say thank you for letting me know the situation, but please don’t remove Donald’s lunch break over something that didn’t leave a mark and DD had gotten past by bedtime. Would this come across as rude? I worry it’ll sound like I’m telling her how to teach when I really am not, I know I couldn’t teach 20 odd 5/6 year olds.

I’m also not saying Donald shouldn’t face some consequences, only that there must be consequences that would fit the situation better and actually work towards solving the problem?

I agree with you that playtime being taken away will likely cause more problems later that day, I don't think the teacher will like being called out on that

Rubbish. Some children with ASD in ‘that’ mood will take his aggression out on others in the playground. He’s best kept away save others a punch.

That said it’s likely a TA will take him for a run to burn off some energy.

I'm with you OP, Donald lashed out because his needs weren't being met. School should know that he can't cope with children getting too close and make sure that doesn't happen for everyone's sake. They failed him and failed your daughter - and now he's being punished.

What I would want put in place is something to prevent this happening again. There's a good chance Donald may not even understand that this is a punishment for something that happened on a different day when he was overwhelmed. It is to make you feel that 'something is being done' as it is probably what other parents have insisted on 'Donald needs to be punished for this' - you can see it from all the replies on here.

I would contact the school because if they think this is the way to handle it then you do know how to handle it better than them - so why should you pretend you don't? If the school doesn't like you knowing better then they need to get their teachers trained up in handling children with ASD, ADHD etc. They can't punish Donald into being able to cope with things that he can't cope with, it just won't work.

If Donald can't cope with break times outside due to the noise and number of children then keeping him in at lunchtime might well be much better for him and everyone else - but then lets not pretend that that is his punishment. It is to enable him to cope in the school environment.

All in all the chances are that Donald would be much better off somewhere for children with SEN which has much smaller classes and much more support. He shouldn't be being 'punished' because that is not available to him.

itsmyp4rty

Since you are such an expert can you explain why the student only punches children who are smaller and younger than him?
And how he will ever learn that this is unacceptable behaviour if he is not punished?

You are responsible for ensuring your daughter is OK and supporting her to navigate relationships and friendships. If you focus on ensuring that the person who punched your daughter is not punished too harshly what message do you think your daughter will pick up? Might she start to think that her comfort and safety come second to the "troubled" child? What could this lead to in her future?

I'd be very wary of getting involved in how the school manage the other child - he has his own parents who can advocate for him. You concentrate on your child and her wellbeing.

Like I think the school need to be putting in appropriate measures to ensure that Donald feels safe and able to learn without lashing out but it's not OP's role to tell them this!

Something similar happened to me at school and I've never forgotten the feeling of my mum not being on my side.

Support your DD! Donald isn't your problem.

If the child has a gut response to hit out at others he feels too close, taking away a break won't manage it effectively as in the moment he'd react exactly the same. He needs working with specifically to de-sensitise that feeling. I think this needs to be more focused, specific behaviour management based on that rather than some ill-informed punitive retribution.

I agree that your dd should not get the message this is okay. However, the school's response is lacking in informed judgement.

Absolutely this. Forget Donald and show full support for your DD.

Im glad to see you’re leaving it up to the school op. If Donald’s parent feels this is an inappropriate way to punish him, that’s up to them to discuss with the school. As a parent of autistic children, I would and have fully accepted that (whilst there needs to be accommodations for their needs) it’s never excusable to hit out at other child. All children should be safe at school.

I am concerned about how much ‘Be Kind’ you’re putting on your daughter. Her welfare comes first, and that’s the most important lesson you could ever teacher her. Of course she should be understanding of others to a point, but never to her own detriment.

This is a 6 y/o with well known additional needs. I wouldn’t get involved in the punishment (although I do agree that removing lunchtime is counterproductive) but I would be asking them how this happened and how they propose to keep your daughter safe.

This is 100% a failure by the school, they are not supporting him correctly, not recognising that he is disregulated and failing to respond quickly enough to keep everyone safe. You cannot get involved in the actions they take, but you can hold them as a school accountable for their failure that led to your daughter getting punched.

It is entirely wrong in principle that the teacher told you Donald had SEN.

The school are clearly dealing with it and have chosen a punishment that fits in with their plan for him. You do not know what other incidents have occurred with other children and the punishment could be entirely appropriate in context. He may have been on last warning over other other incidents.

It is not your place to come back on them about this. Your job is to make sure they know when incidents happen that involve your DD.

You are obviously a kind and thoughtful person.

But you don't know what's going on with Donald. There may be a behaviour plan in place agreed with Donald's family.

The school really shouldn't have told you anything about what will happen with Donald.

It’s not up to you to dictate how children are disciplined.

This child clearly has issues that the school has a strategy to address. How arrogant to think you know better. If I was the teacher I Woolf roll my eyes and ignore.

Sorry that was a hit harsh - but I do hate this be kind mantra. It is especially pushed in little girls - be kind to the bigger stronger kid who punches you in the stomach he is having a bad day. Let’s understand why someone is being awful.

I never tell little girls to be kind - I tell them to push back, stand up for themselves.

one day your daughter will encounter a Donald at work - should she fawn and praise him when he is being a decent human being and ‘be kind’ when he steals her ideas and talks over her in meetings?

this - it does surprise me how teachers do this to a child with SEN who needs to run out their feelings at lunch. I am not sure what but a different punishment is needed. Do you tell the teacher? Unfort I think not but if you ever speak to them again you can just verbally ask the question would removing lunch play mean they are less settled in the afternoon.

Tbh I'm surprised the school has told you so much about Donald and his punishment...my dcs school just says 'we are investigating matters and can't tell you the outcomes for data protection reasons'

In the kindest way, who the heck do you think you are to be tellung the teacher how to manage her class?

YABU. Your daughter should not have to put up with another kid thumping her in the stomach. Excuses for the boy are irrelevant your daughter is your priority. Good that the school are punishing him many people have to put up with their child being bullied and the school doing nothing about it

This 👏👏 could also be related to relationships so many girls make excuses for their abusive partners. No one should be punched in the stomach because someone else is having a bad day

In several schools I've taught in, missing play for a child where playtime is vital for regulation, usually meant missing the main playtime with friends, but still having a run around in another area with an adult or (if they have a 1:1) taken outside during the afternoon for a run around.

I agree with everyone else YABU. I've worked with severely disabled children in special schools and they still need consequences when they hurt others because otherwise how will they learn it's not ok? Also how else do you protect others? The teacher will decide what's the appropriate consequence, perhaps he is overwhelmed at lunch time and prefers spending it indoors anyway or it may just be a safer way to keep an eye on him.

It's not your concern. Protect your daughter instead of offering her up as another child's punch bag

Don't do this. Seriously. Do NOT do this.

I'm impressed the school are responding as they are. A child with SEN at our school has been hurting children for years, starting from when he was tiny. Now he's stronger, whole classes have to be evacuated when he's throwing tables around, and it's been getting worse and more dangerous as he gets older and much stronger. I feel quite strongly that if the school had taken a clearer line in early days, got more support for him etc, things would be better now - for him and other children.

My child was punched hard enough to be winded and fell to the ground. When he was on the ground he was kicked hard in the head. And attacked further times after that in quick succession. Very very dangerous.

I don't care what kind of SEN any child has, it is NEVER acceptable for other small children to have to absorb the negative consequences of their life circumstances. And that includes your DD.

My child didn't sign up to be a physical support aid for helping a child with SEN to learn to manage his emotions. Keep in mind too that being on the receiving end of these kinds of attacks can give rise to additional needs too: my child stopped wanting to go to school and became very anxious.

Adults need to do the right thing by both children: include kids with SEN and other issues AND ensure every single child is protected and safe. Every child has a right to safety. There are no exceptions and should be no tolerance for reduced safety. And parents of both sets of children should insist on this.

There is different primary school local to me where a child (one who very sadly grew up witnessing horrific domestic abuse) viciously fixates on a class member and will attack relentlessly. The school has had to occasionally lock him out the classroom to prevent him from returning and attacking again. A teacher there told me they're just dreading the day he brings in a knife. They can do virtually nothing because parents don't want to complain because they know his story and feel desperately sorry for him.

I look at both these kids and think, all the sympathy they're getting now, and tolerance, instead of hard focussed work in the form of all the support they need to help them, will vanish when they're adults.

The day the child in my school grows up and, as an adult, kicks another adult in the head, will be the day they go to jail. The day the kid at the other school stabs someone he'll be seen as a psychopath, and not a damaged child, overnight. He'll be written about in the local newspaper. Surely we want to avert that for these kids? And that means responding rationally (not emotionally) to behaviour now.

@Whatwouldyoudo24 I wouldn't question the school on this occasion as it isn't your child who is being punished.
Perhaps in your reply you could tell them about the kind things that your daughter mentioned that Donald has done as a small way of advocating for him but without undermining the school or not supporting your daughter?

Do your job: protect your daughter. Prioritise your daughter.

Anything else is you putting your need to feel ‘kind’ and ‘evolved’ above your child’s needs. Work that stuff out in your own adult relationships - don’t project it onto her.