To ask how to teach empathy to dd

[Opinionsprettyplease]

Dd is 9, almost 10. I'm just out of her parent teacher meeting, and her teacher has repeated almost to the word what last year's teacher said; that she's academically excellent but lacks empathy for others. Can be harsh in dealing with them and as a consequence is often involved in arguments, especially with girls.
I can admit I've failed her in this. She's an only child but I make sure she has loads of activities and playdates to "offset" this. I'd sometimes notice her speaking harshly to her friends or talking down to them, and I rarely intervene. I always figured I'd let her see herself the consequences; they'll eventually get sick of being spoken to like that and move away from her. I figured this would work better than me telling her to "be nice".
I can see that this was wrong and hasn't worked. Her teacher said that during one chat with her, she admitted that she "doesn't know how" to be kinder, how to put herself in other people's shoes.
I hope it's not too late but I'm not sure what I can do. How do you teach empathy? I honestly feel that I model it. Do you just keep having chats about "how do you think x felt when you said that". Or any books I can get help from?
To be fair she has loads of friends but as her teacher pointed out they are coming to an age where the kids make groups and some can be left out if they're perceived as "mean".
Any help would really be appreciated🙏

Start with her emotions. She needs to be able to recognise them and where they come from before she can identify them in others.

How does she manage frustration, anger, grief, sadness, disgust etc? Can she express how she feels in words. Does she know why she feels that way in the moment or afterwards? Does she feel able and safe to be overwhelmed with a strong emotion? Can she hold 2 emotions at the same time eg anxiety and excitement for getting on a rollercoaster, or does one feeling have to obliterate the other?

I would agree with@TheGreatHat . Start with talking about her own feelings and giving her the vocabulary to express her emotions. Also talk about how things make you feel, and why they make you feel that way. Talk to her about the fact that different people can have different emotions about the same experience and that it's possible to feel more than one emotion at once.
Get your daughter to actively think about how another person might feel in certain situations. Get her to put herself in their shoes and to take their perspective. These skills are crucial in developing and maintaining friendships.

Have you considered whether she might have ASD (this is what my child with ASD struggles with)

Can be harsh in dealing with them and as a consequence is often involved in arguments, especially with girls.

her speaking harshly to her friends or talking down to them

Also this isn't necessarily a lack of empathy. This is also about existing in a social setting with other people, learning to compromise, to be political, have patience, understanding that people can have different opinions etc

You have to be able to have some knowledge of all of this before you know it's necessary to 'be kind'

Also bare in mind that what people perceive as empathy often isn't. People often look like they are kind and empathetic but they can be motivated by guilt, self loathing, or just being performative for social standing.

Thanks very much for the replies. @TheGreatHat and @MardyMcBlowdry yes I think we need to go right back to basics, these were always things I just assumed she knew/picked up but I was wrong. Also agree that it's not just empathy but learning to rub along with people in the way that kids with siblings do.
@WrongSwanson I thought the same when I was writing the post! It is what it sounds like. But she has no other traits at all so I don't think so.
Thanks, really appreciate the advice!

Talk about feelings , hers and yours. Talk about things that might be in tv programmes etc, tell her how some stories make you feel for example. Talk about any pets you have ? I think it's a bit harsh to have left her to be mean to friends and not pointed out that maybe she could do things differently. Why would you not try to help her if the oppportubity arose or guided her in how to treat her friends? It will be a work in progress as she grows and matures as it is for us all.

My DD can be a little like this

Some phrases I use

How do you think X felt about that? How would you feel if it was you?

What’s a nicer way to say that?

Did you really need to say that?

Similarly, I am teaching her not to correct/contradict others unless a) it’s actually necessary eg something is going to go wrong if uncorrected b) she is 100% certain she is right

it’s a work in progress… DD is just 11 and there has definitely been improvement on this front in the last year so don’t despair.

watch tv together and ask how does she think a character might be feeling. It focuses away from her and hopefully opens up conversations further.

There is a wonderful children's film called Inside Out .. it's a great way to start a conversation about feelings including empathy- really recommend it .. our children love it .. sequel out soon

I suppose I use natural consequences a lot. Eg she doesn't want to wear a coat, I don't keep repeating the same thing, I let her get cold and learn that way. So I was thinking along those lines; it's not like I've never taught her to share etc but if she refuses I was letting her face the natural consequences.
I'm probably not explaining this well but it's what I was reasoning. I can see it was the wrong approach.

Thanks, these are all useful tips 👍

Not wrong. I use similar with bed times. No bed time but you deal with the consequences next day.

I think though it’s useful to have other strategies now you know it’s needed.

Also talk about TV shows. Chat about what the characters are doing, how they're feeling, was it a nice or a mean way to behave etc. It's a good way of opening up a dialogue about emotions and empathy without feeling like a nag, because you can just talk about whatever her favorite TV show is.

In general I agree with natural consequences. Unfortunately however by the time these type of natural consequences kick in (losing friends) it’s a bit late. Both because it’s harder to change personality/way of speaking to others the longer it’s left, and because older kids aren’t too willing to give second chances once they’ve decided someone isn’t nice.

Can understand why you took this approach though. Did you by any chance fear provoking a blow up if you criticised her behaviour towards friends, especially when the friend is right there?

Could you ‘role play’ a scenario with her.
You play the role of your daughter and speak to her the way she speaks to others.
Your daughter plays the role of one of her friends and then you can both discuss how that felt and looked and how it could be modified to be a little ‘kinder.’
You could even record it on your phone and play it back to her.

She could be ASD and really not have a clue how others feel.
Those subtle nuances of body language and communication can be a mine field !

Yes I probably did!
But yes that what both teachers thought, that if it goes on too long it'll be harder to come back, that she'll be left out of friendship groups etc.

Don't make this about the fact that she is an only child, OP - it isn't!

My dd is an only child (not through choice!) and she is genuinely one of the most empathetic people I know. Conversely, there are plenty of people out there without siblings who lack empathy!

To some extent, I think about personality. I honestly think my dd was just wired to be the way she is, and she showed signs of being able to empathise effectively from a very early age - long before I could have "taught" her, so don't beat yourself up about it too much. Your dd's natural settings might be different.

That said, regardless of innate personality differences, I think there is a lot that you can do to help her develop in this area. As others have said, the first step is to help her really understand and recognise her own feelings. And then yes, lots of conversations about how people might feel in certain situations...not just when she is in trouble for being mean but when she has done stuff that makes people feel happy as well. And yes to talking about character in books and on TV etc as well.

I might try this. If she'll go along with it 😭
I've always been sceptical that she just doesn't understand the difference body language, tone of voice etc makes but I'm thinking now that she might just be telling the truth! So I suppose we really do have to go back to basics and take it step by step from there.

I don't think you have been 'wrong' as this approach would probably work with some children but if she isn't naturally good at picking up on the subtleties then it's good to recognise another way is needed.

DS is similar - i have realised he doesnt mean to be unkind and is actually very sensitive to other people's feelings if he is aware of them (he is mortified if he realises he has upset you) but doesn't always have the ability to 'put himself in someone else's shoes'. I think it's important you don't make your daughter feel like she is horrible and doesn't care about other people's feelings by recognising she is probably not noticing or considering them rather than being actively mean.

With ds we have found that really spelling things out and not waiting for him to infer has been helpful. For example, we would always ask him / each other how our days were but one day dh said ds it would be nice if you asked Mum how her day was. Since then I've noticed he is more aware and will sometimes do this unprompted. The other thing I've found helps is to talk about how he has made me feel and suggest a better way of making the same point so e.g. if he moans about dinner I will say 'I spent a lot of time making that for you so it's a bit hurtful if you say its horrible and pull a face. How about saying 'thanks for dinner, I liked the chicken but I'm not keen on mushrooms would it be OK if you left them out next time?'.

I try not to pull him up infront of his friends but will prompt him sometimes before/after (e.g. it might be nice to let Will pick the game this time) and I would definitely step in on something that was very unkind and crossed a line, or if the friend looked upset.

I do think he is getting better so there is definitely hope!

Do you talk openly about your feelings, do you cry? Does she cry, does she ever feel sad when watching films?

OP please don't dismiss the possibility of ASD. It can be very hard to spot in girls.
We taught a girl who was constantly falling out with the other girls in her class. We tried all sorts - talking circles, writing down feelings etc. It would be ok for a while then the misunderstandings and arguments would start again.
It didn't occur to any of the staff that she was Nd, and we all had plenty of experience, but apart from this one issue, there was nothing else to see.
Once she got to secondary she was diagnosed ASD. It was clearer to see her distress in a bigger school with so many more people and situations to negotiate.

And fwiw, I'm a fan of natural consequences, but the problem is, with relationships, you might not always see the natural consequences of your behaviour for a very long time. So if your dd is mean to people, it's very likely that friends will stop wanting to play with her, but by the time she realises it, it will be too late.

Your job is not to "punish" her for poor behaviour by imposing some sort of random sanction on her, but rather to help her understand and anticipate the likely natural consequences of her interactions with her friends. You don't have to do it there and then if you're worried about embarrassing her (though sometimes I think it's better to intervene before things get worse!) - you can speak to her about it later.

But you don't have to let them get beside themselves with exhaustion to understand this. Surely they can imagine how they will feel if they don't get enough sleep?

No, I'm not great I suppose.
I do encourage her to, and she is fairly open with me, will cry when upset etc. But only briefly and then she'll shut down, distract herself with something else and not want to talk about it again..

I think this is great advice, I actually think genuine empathy is very rare and people are generally very selfish by nature.
I come from a family of people pleasers and I have seen first hand how you get taken advantage of; So I am a bit on the fence as to whether you do need to intervene. When she is left out of her friendship group she will have to decide whether she wants to change her behaviour for a different outcome. I personally think she might fare better in life (depending on what success is to you) if she does have a thick skin. You could start saying ‘do you think X will stay friends with you if you speak to her like that?’ And see if she reflects on that. And also there must be times when she has been upset by someone else - maybe see if she can link how she has felt those times and how she makes others think. But I personally wouldn’t put a lot of emphasis on being kind as a dominating quality to the point of people pleasing. Maybe I am harsh but I don’t think it serves people well to be nothing but kind and I’ve seen first hand the two extremes of extreme kindness and extreme selfishness and I can tell you the selfish person has fared much better in life out of the two I am thinking of!