To ask how to teach empathy to dd

[Opinionsprettyplease]

Dd is 9, almost 10. I'm just out of her parent teacher meeting, and her teacher has repeated almost to the word what last year's teacher said; that she's academically excellent but lacks empathy for others. Can be harsh in dealing with them and as a consequence is often involved in arguments, especially with girls.
I can admit I've failed her in this. She's an only child but I make sure she has loads of activities and playdates to "offset" this. I'd sometimes notice her speaking harshly to her friends or talking down to them, and I rarely intervene. I always figured I'd let her see herself the consequences; they'll eventually get sick of being spoken to like that and move away from her. I figured this would work better than me telling her to "be nice".
I can see that this was wrong and hasn't worked. Her teacher said that during one chat with her, she admitted that she "doesn't know how" to be kinder, how to put herself in other people's shoes.
I hope it's not too late but I'm not sure what I can do. How do you teach empathy? I honestly feel that I model it. Do you just keep having chats about "how do you think x felt when you said that". Or any books I can get help from?
To be fair she has loads of friends but as her teacher pointed out they are coming to an age where the kids make groups and some can be left out if they're perceived as "mean".
Any help would really be appreciated🙏

@slore what part makes you think of sociopathy? I completely disagree and I think its really dangerous to casually say this.

Sociopathy is rare (despite everyone claiming their ex was a narcissist), it is a mental health condition where people show absolutely no regard for other people and have no morals or regard for right or wrong. Nothing in the OP posts suggest any of this kind of behaviour .

I do think that the capacity for empathy is innate to a certain degree. But I disagree that you either have it or you don't. I think it can be taught and encouraged, it's just that it comes more naturally to some people than to others.

I also don't think you can make a blanket statement about someone being "too confident to have autism". Autistic people are not all the same!!

Plenty of males don't display the 'typical' symptoms either. It's not that simple. There are plenty of undiagnosed males struggling with life because they don't tick the narrow boxes.

Agreed. There is nothing here to suggest that the OP's dd is a sociopath! Just a little girl who needs to learn better social skills and who may or may not have some form of neurodiversity.

Sociopathy is anti-social personality disorder, not narcissistic personality disorder.

Autism is also rare, and is becoming over-diagnosed these days, but that doesn't stop everyone from shouting from the rooftops about "neurodiversity" as an armchair diagnosis for every unpleasant individual. It's much more palatable to think it's autism than the beginnings of a personality disorder.

Teachers have twice flagged up a lack of empathy and even the mother has noticed. This is unusual, as most kids aren't brilliant with empathy to start with.

People with autism try, and get there partially, some behaviours we don't understand. The apparent lack of empathy in autism comes from imagining that the other person reacts exactly the same as us, when we try to put ourselves in other's shoes. Whereas the child says she "doesn't know how" to put herself in other people's shoes; this is NOT THE SAME THING as autism.

It is unusual for people with autism to be purposefully nasty and to be confident enough to behave the way OP describes. She also has not mentioned meltdowns, and the way she describes her daughter sounds like she's emotionally well-controlled.

I am confused about the autism/ confidence connection @slore? I mean I'm no expert and DS has only just started on path of ASD diagnosis but she definitely comes across confident. This did not cancel out her screening.

Surely anyone can appear confident, even if they're not? In fact insecurity can often appear as confidence as people over compensate.

Also depends on what you mean by confidence. My DD is always totally confident in her opinion on things, precisely because she has no empathy. She's can't imagine someone might feel differently, in different scenarios etc.

She often makes assumptions/ mistakes based on 'well they didn't mind X yesterday so why are they bothered today?' And I have to explain that not wanting chocolate once does not mean they'll never want it etc so you can't just eat their chocolate without asking etc. Then she's super confused.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is confidence really totally incompatible with ASD?

I never said totally incompatible, but given the strong association with autism and social anxiety, and not knowing how people will react due to not being able to perceive facial emotions, yes, social confidence is rather unusual among people with autism.

I truly believe that autism has become a catch-all diagnosis for a variety of conditions that are less palatable.

@slore the DD hasnt been purposefully nasty, it sounds like she has spoken bluntly to other children. Masking at school or in a work setting is very common with people with ASD.

you are just saying things here without any context and absolutely empathy can be taught it isn't always easy for someone though

@slore it sounds like you don't buy into the masking idea. To me it just feels like a very black and white statement to say ASD = social anxiety and social anxiety always looks entirely obvious.

For example my DD hates loud places/ groups and will sometimes even hide under the table in restaurants to escape. But if someone (even an adult) were to say something she disagreed with in that situation she would have no issue being very confident and blunt in her disagreement.

This often raises eyebrows among adults if she corrects them which is socially frowned on by old school types or by her peers who can't believe how she has the 'confidence' to be so 'cheeky'.

She doesn't think she is being cheeky or that it's about guts. She just doesn't understand social norms.

Thank God someone said this.

If you witness your own child being blunt and rude to their mates you don’t just ignore it, you tell them it’s wrong. They can’t go through life just treating people like shit and be taught by ‘natural consequences’… it’s a parent’s job to make sure they are fit to live in community with others.

And as pp have said - research says that the best way to teach children empathy is through modelling and reading character-driven books.

Oh, so it's
" I am autistic, but they are a sociopath? "

Rather than the far more likely - they too feel empathy but aren't good at showing it?

What a strange take on things.

I think you're confusing boldness with confidence. I'm almost certainly ND. I have huge social anxiety. However, I come across as confident when I'm talking to people because I consider my views deeply and don't offer an opinion unless I am sure of my position on it. I've met many children with ASD (my DD1 went to special school, where 90% of the children had ASD). The vast majority spoke confidently about their opinion, even when it was completely wrong. Mainly because they couldn't imagine that anyone could come to a different conclusion.

Or in other words, you think your version of autism is the only real one.

@Opinionsprettyplease do consider ASD.

My girls all have ASD (well DD3 is still on the waiting list but will be dx). I spend hours talking through situations with them, looking at them from different angles.

The other thing to think about is that your DD doesn't actually have to learn to 'have empathy'. That's massive and it can come with life experience. What she can learn is that certain behaviours help us to get along in society and make life easier. For example, 'If you don't like what Sara is wearing, you don't have to tell her'. 'If you don't understand why Lucy is crying, you can still be kind'.

It's an intriguing position to take!

I don't think she's being nasty or cruel as such. She does things like taking over a game, saying "oh here let me do it" when someone is slow to do something.

Is she able to identify her own feelings? DS has ODD and we have this feelings chart from his therapist. We are supposed to use it (not when he's in a rage but in between times) to name the feelings he is having.

He finds it very hard.

do you do that to her/others I'm not being critical but being bossy or overbearing can be learned ,

We have this issue.

I've watched hours of The Dumping Ground and Malory Towers with DD. Lots of opportunities there to talk about feelings and behaviour. DD actually doesn't know why people do a lot of the things they do...