'I do all these things AND work FT'

[Bumpitybumper]

I see this on Mumsnet a lot but have just experienced it in real life. I have two friends (A&B). Friend A is a SAHM to school age kids and Friend B works FT in quite a stressful job. Friend B was just lamenting that they don't understand how Friend A fills her time as she manages to work FT AND do everything Friend A does.

The thing is, Friend B has a much smaller (yet lovely) house that is pretty chaotic in fun energetic way. It is never the tidiest or cleanest but it's not disgusting either. Friend A on the other hand has a much bigger house that is pretty immaculate most of the time. Friend A does all the school runs and volunteers at school. Friend B needs wraparound care in order to get to work so drops her kids of at 8 and collects around 17:30. Friend A cooks amazing meals for her family, has her children's friends round for fun playdates and activities and is generally incredibly on top of everything. Friend B is understandably more stretched and isn't in the position to cook lavish meals every day of the week or have friends round when she's at work. Friend B's husband does a lot (of course absolutely fair and right) so she doesn't have to attend every parents evening, sew all the badges for extracurricular clubs or assist with all the homework etc. Friend A does pretty much all of that as husband works such long hours.

I actually think both are amazing and very productive people that channel their energy, time and talent in different channels. I just struggle to understand though how Friend B can't appreciate that she isn't doing the same as Friend A or at least doing it to the same standard. Before people suggest I'm Friend A, I have my own business so don't really fit in either camp but used to be a SAHM so I guess can see Friend A's efforts more.

AIBU to think that Friend B is a bit deluded?

Friend B sounds a bit bitter and honestly, it's not her business what friend A does with her time.

It’s funny that 12 weeks maternity leave used to be the norm. I went back to work after 12 weeks by choice and some people acted like I was an awful parent yet DH went back to work after 4 weeks and pretty much the same people were surprised he had ‘so much’ time off.

Hopefully one day, it will be the norm for men to have a decent amount of time off that just 2 weeks seems incredibly strange.

Yes I agree, bf is bound to be harder when you're working, absolutely worth it imo but again, everyone's different

Friend A reminds me of my DD. On top of everything. While me, ha, I'm much further down the list!
Friend A has a good routine worked out, and probably sleeps well at night as she's so knackered!
Don't compare yourselves, you're all different and do things well but in your own ways. Do what you do and be happy!

You can take shared parental leave at the same time /simultaneously you know
the birthing parent must take the first 2 weeks after birth as maternity leave but the other parent can take paternity leave for this anyway and shared parental leave can only start after that point but you can split it however you prefer
I know many who had 6 months off together and went to family in Spain or Australia etc
I know others who had 3 months off together at the start then mum was off for another 6 on her own etc
also if a company has an enhanced maternity pay then dad can get that too so the couples I know where dad and mum were off together for 6M at the start both got almost full pay for that whole time as both had enhanced pay

I think having transferable / flexible leave is best like Sweden where you can take 18m off during the first 4 years as personally I could have worked with a new born and taken time off with her as a toddler etc in Sweden a certain no of weeks is fixed for mum and dad but the rest can be split and yes mums do take more partly due to breastfeeding etc but it's a very Normal state of affairs for dads to have huge chunks off too - also they get nearly double the holiday days to us in the uk, and all Swedish people by law are allowed a month block off a year between June and September if they want it they have cheaper and better childcare provided and if kids sick the parents don't take holiday they take sick leave and get full pay etc

I am friend B, but my house is immaculate. (I’m a tad OCD). The thing I miss out on is volunteering and being super involved at schools or clubs. Oh and we can’t have mid week play dates. But that’s ok. Each to their own I guess. Friend B prob doesn’t think those additional bits are important and would probably prefer to provide extra income for her family.

Now this is delusion.

Pure delusion. I’ve only encountered it on here, the idea that becoming economically dependent is widely acknowledged to be ‘fortunate ’ or ‘a blessing’.

It seems to be a certain kind of adult woman’s version of the ‘Don’t mind her, she’s just jealous’ stuff that also gets parroted on here about anyone who doesn’t seem to like someone.

There’s so much competition and jealously amongst women.
Both are valid choices. I’m a full time working mum but I can see how you can still fill your time being a SAHM. You can do lots of volunteering, organising parties, childcare esp if her husband is away a lot which would be really hard if she’s working full time.
i reckon she’s just a bit jealous that friend A can be a SAHM and be comfortable doing it.
Personally it’s not for me as I love doing cerebral stuff and being busy but I can see how much better I would be at keeping the house in order and being on top of all the kids activities if I wasn’t working. For eg I wouldn’t of sent my son in the wrong fancy dress if I’d read the newsletter properly 🤪

Why is it not a blessing to have a partner who’s financially stable and can support the choices you make. When you are married you have a lot of rights when it comes to finances and if you have a husband who is generous and pays for everything and happy doing so why would you feel the need to work if you prefer to raise your family.
A few of my friends are mainly SAHM and rely on their partner for money.
Another thing is a lot of people think that if you don’t work you’ll suddenly become destitute if your husband leaves you. If you are savvy you’ll be using your partners money but having a pot aside for rainy days. Also if you divorce you’ll get a good share of the total family pot of money. Plus you can also still skill up as a SAHM by doing short courses and get a job if needed.
If I wanted to stop working and be a SAHM my husband would 100% support me. If anything he would prefer it as I’ll be more available for the kids etc… but he knows that I enjoy working and it’ll never happen. To me it is fortunate that I can make that choice as not everyone can. Not everyone has a partner that can cover all financial commitments without any strain.

I am friend B without the husband. I am fucked by Friday night and have the pleasure of making my house sparkling, attend to all domestic and admin chores . Then in a Saturday I get the please of batch cooking extraordinary meals for the following week while simultaneously sewing badges on to DC clothes.I’ll also chuck in a DC with ASN.
I’ll bet you friend A or any other SAHP has never felt the weariness of a full time working single parent.
Bonus is I don’t need to pleasure my DH of a weekend or praise his efforts for keeping my in cash to stay at home.

I don't think women should have to give maternity leave up for fathers. That is not women focussed. It would be better for women to have a properly supported year or more off work.

Also, as you can see on mumsnet, few fathers properly support a household. What I can see happening is fathers staying at home, doing no housework, and the mother coming back home from work to a tip of a house.

Nothing will change if we simply accept the status quo. Children deserve to have dads who are involved in hands on caring - they're at the centre of this.

If you are savvy you’ll be using your partners money but having a pot aside for rainy days. Also if you divorce you’ll get a good share of the total family pot of money.

Most SAHMs are not married to millionaires but guys earning average salaries. What pots of money?

This is likely more the case when both parents work to be honest. Me and DH share between us sick days, school holidays, school and afterschool activities and pick ups/drop offs etc. If I didn't work although he'd spend time with our child when he wasn't working let's be real he wouldn't be taking time off work for the above when needed or flexing his day to accommodate drop offs as that would be a bit ludicrous.

Not really. Most of the women I know would give up work tomorrow if they could.

@Peablockfeathers I agree 100% with that and it was exactly what dh and I did. We both worked and split other stuff between us.

I also think that could be some value in having a certain amount of leave which could only be taken by the father. It wouldn't mean reducing any of the paid leave available to mums, but introducing an element of leave on a use it or lose it basis. I know there is the option of transferable leave now but the take up rate it pitiful - barely any mums transfer some of their leave to the dad. It's a shame - we would definitely have taken advantage of it had it been around in the 1980s. It would be beneficial for the child, and also it would mean dads are far more likely to continue being hands-on if they're had a period of time as sole carer. It seems a big problem nowadays is that mums usually have a long mat leave - up to a year - but dad hasn't had any time as sole carer so when mum returns to work, it becomes the default that she Carries on doing more child and domestic chores.

Dh and I were always determined to share things as much as possible as we both wanted a good balance for ourselves and our dc. But the above suggestion would be helpful for couples where perhaps they're more ambivalent, and could slip into polarised roles by default. You see it a lot on MN; mums several years down the line bemoaning the fact the dad doesn't lift a finger round the house, or doesn't do nursery drop offs because his job is 'too important' etc Sad that in 2023 this persists. Sometimes it takes a new policy or legislation to shift peoples' mindsets and behaviours. Anything which promotes equality and helps to give children the parenting and role models they deserve is a positive thing imo

That seems extremely unlikely, are you in a deprived area with jobs like retail and caring not careers?
I think maybe 1 in 10 women I know would give up work completely if they could. Most teachers I know would go pt if they won the lottery, because their job is meaningful to them.
Unless seriously ill I highly doubt most people would want to stop entirely, they might go to 2 or 3 days.

@Boomboom22 That seems extremely unlikely, are you in a deprived area with jobs like retail and caring not careers?

What you really mean is - you must be working class.

No, not deprived at all, just people who’s career isn’t the centre of their lives.

It's quite normal for people to value their work, usually linked to years of learning and cpd. I don't recognise this negative idea of work being something you'd just give up asap.

I mean lots of people, men and women, those with children and those without would love to give up work if they could afford to. I don't think that means most have a burning desire particularly to be a SAHM.

@notahappybunny7* *
"Not really. Most of the women I know would give up work tomorrow if they could."

And the men? Do they all want to give up work too? Or are they are totally different species?

Quite frankly if working is that horrendous, it makes sense for both partners in a couple to work part time... at least it shares out the awfulness equally, rather than one partner suffering it full time to facilitate the other doing none of it!

Of course, the other thing is to aim for interesting and stimulating work, which is what I always encouraged my dd and ds' to do. Working is a fact of life, most people will spend a chunk of their adult life doing it so it makes sense to do something that's interesting as well as providing economic independence

My work isn’t horrendous but I wouldn’t do it if I won the lottery no way.
Im a business owner, I have been for 2 decades, I’m very lucky I can work mostly when I want but than I did carve it out to be that way.

I wasn't asking about you, I was referring to all the women you know and claim want to give up work tomorrow, and wondering if the men you know feel the same