30 hours free childcare- means tested?!

[bingbongbang23]

Sure I will get blasted, but I only just realised that the 30hr free childcare is means tested. I have paid full price for my child for past 2 years- at a whopping £1240 a month, but it is what it is.

Selfishly, i was so looking forward to her turning 3 and getting the free hours. Would be a massive help with mortgage going up. However I don't qualify. And it is not a sliding scale, I don't qualify for anything. So I would actually be better off reducing hours so I would qualify for the free hours- in what world should that be the case?! Makes no sense to me!

Why is there so much feelings of smugness just because you pay loads of tax on here?

It's not smugness, it's objecting to people who think those who have contributed the most to the pot (often by working hard and not taking years off unpaid because they want to stay at home with their children) should not be entitled to take anything back out of it.

Either way, suggesting that someone who is a high earner and possibly not even a higher rate taxpayer but an additional rate taxpayer is expecting lower earners to "subsidise" them if they want to benefit from the same free childcare allowance as everyone else is objectively insane and demonstrates a total lack of understanding of where the money to pay for everyone's hours actually comes from.

Its not leaving the country to avoid paying taxes, people over the cliff edge still pay a load of tax even if they're not eligible for the funded hours others are- not sure you quite understand any of this. Plenty of places besides London that are expensive to live, if you're going to uproot yourself to live away from family etc may as well go abroad to a country where the standard of living is also better (and yes you still pay tax).

Overall I dont mind not getting 30 hours, although i live in london where housing is so expensive, I am still in a better position that having a lower household income and getting 30 hours

however imo this does push women out of the workplace. I was working PT and we dont get any benefits/30 hrs and in the end decided to become a SAHM for a few years as after playing for childcare the take home pay wasnt really worth the stress of juggling.

The work is already being undertaken to understand whether or not someone is entitled to 30 freee hours based on individual income. The issue isn’t the means testing, the issue is that it isn’t based on household income.

I don't think you're going to get much sympathy. Your choice to have kids and a large mortgage.

You're right OP, it doesn't make sense that you can end up better off by earning less. Especially not in a climate where we really need workers and tax revenues.

Cliff edges like this are a really bad thing generally, whatever point on the income spectrum they might fall. Unfortunately, some people are unable to see beyond whether they happen to sympathise personally with the individual affected. But cliff edges are a system problem.

I agree with you. Why on earth should some of us pay more into the system but get less.

Why should we subsidize low earners, when you put it hat way? They should not be having kids they can't afford to support.

At least high earners pay taxes.

Spot on!!!

I don't think it's subsidising low earners. It's just normal people with normal jobs.
We can't all earn 100k +

We have a joint income of about 60k. Which I think is actually a very standard family income. We both have key worker (I hate that term!) Jobs. Somebody has to do those roles. Neither of us were furloughed.

We were very grateful for the 30 hrs. Childcare is prohibitively expensive.

I understand the funding has to stop at some point. I couldn't even imagine earning close to salaries talked about. I know you pay a huge amount of tax, but it's still many times my salary.

I have no problem with people being successful! but I think it's a bit much expecting help with childcare when you are earning such a huge amount of money.

I wonder why the funding does have to stop at some point, really. We do have some entitlements that aren't income based anyway, so clearly its not something we qs a society avoid on principle. As as a left winger who supports broad societal provision, I worry about higher earners withdrawing their support if they don't feel they get enough out of it. Certainly I'm far from convinced that the savings are worth the risk, especially when we have people who'd literally be costing themselves money if they take that promotion or do the extra shift.

It’s not that I particularly disagree with you in principle, but you earn so much money that I just don’t really care. You’re not hard up, you’re more fortunate than the overwhelming majority of people in this country, it just doesn’t bother me that this incentivises you to work less.

Honestly I think anybody earning over £100k who complains about not having childcare paid for has an absolute piece of cheek.
I'd rather the government focus on funding for those who NEED it, not those who just WANT it.

I don't have children, so I've got no skin in the game either.

Because you need it less.

Same thing for people who need to NHS more, or disability provisions, or anything else from the welfare system. Those who need it more, need it more than you.

Thanks for your service.

I think it should be based on household income rather than individual income. I think it's fairer that way.

I do think complaining that you don't get 30 hours funded childcare because you earn over 100k is a bit much though. Our dc are older now but my youngest was at nursery when they introduced the 30 funded hours. We didn't qualify because my dh doesn't earn enough. Although the preschool ds went to was only open for 15 hours a week anyway. There are a lot of unfair things in the system. Like our household income is 8k a year so we earn too much for free school meals. We'd be financially better off on benefits but dh wants to work to help his self esteem.

Oh my God, THIS is what I’m talking about. You have a household income of close to a quarter of a million a year, and four children in private school hit you are still groping about the fact you can’t enjoy the same “perks” as someone on £25k and much less privilege?

The social welfare system is not a “perk”.

neither is it a savings account you get to dip into just because you’ve put into it

Unbelievable

The parent with health problems should be able to claim new-style ESA (if they don't have enough NI contributions it would be a "credits only" claim) and they should then be eligible for TFC and 30h free childcare.

If you are not currently working
You may still be eligible if your partner is working, and you get Incapacity Benefit, Severe Disablement Allowance, Carer’s Allowance, Limited Capability for Work Benefit or contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance.
(from https://www.gov.uk/30-hours-free-childcare)

But if the OP reduced her hours so she both paid less tax and qualified for the 30 free hours, there would be less money in the pot for everyone. It doesn't make sense to disincentivise people from earning more money.

Yet doesn't even want to use any of those services all her taxes pay for all because they are all "shit".

Honestly I think anyone paying little or no taxes objecting to people who pay huge amounts of taxes and actually do subsidise everyone else being able to qualify for the free hours everyone else is getting has an absolute piece of cheek.

makes better financial sense for husband and I to both work a 4 day week and only send daughter to nursery 3 days a week and it takes us both down below the 100k - so i would just look into all options - if you can work less i'd just do that :)

We'd be financially better off on benefits but dh wants to work to help his self esteem.

Have you had a benefits check recently? If he earns an amount that is less than you'd get on benefits chances are you'd get a top up- things have changed with UC.

I don’t understand how you’re better off going part time? If you warn over 100k your daily rate must be over £400, take home £200+. How much is your nursery per day?