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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

30 hours free childcare- means tested?!

236 replies

bingbongbang23 · 14/11/2023 22:47

Sure I will get blasted, but I only just realised that the 30hr free childcare is means tested. I have paid full price for my child for past 2 years- at a whopping £1240 a month, but it is what it is.

Selfishly, i was so looking forward to her turning 3 and getting the free hours. Would be a massive help with mortgage going up. However I don't qualify. And it is not a sliding scale, I don't qualify for anything. So I would actually be better off reducing hours so I would qualify for the free hours- in what world should that be the case?! Makes no sense to me!

OP posts:
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7
Merryoldgoat · 14/11/2023 22:48

Is this a joke?

pinksquash13 · 14/11/2023 22:50

You don't qualify because you or your partner earn over 100k?

TeaKitten · 14/11/2023 22:50

So I would actually be better off reducing hours so I would qualify for the free hours- in what world should that be the case?! Makes no sense to me!

It’s one where you can afford to pay for your own childcare - so you do. Lower earners need help to stay in work with huge childcare bills, so it makes sense for them. Can you still use tax free childcare?

thisisnotgoodj · 14/11/2023 22:50

Look at it this way - one more year and she starts school.

Orangeteddy · 14/11/2023 22:54

I thought 15 hours free was universal for all 3 & 4 year olds?

For the other 15 hours to take you up to 30 free hours, depends how far over the threshold your pay is vs the cost of nursery? With losing the tax allowance too you may be better off dropping a day at work or paying more into your pension - only relevant though if you’re slightly over £100k

Merryoldgoat · 14/11/2023 22:55

pinksquash13 · 14/11/2023 22:50

You don't qualify because you or your partner earn over 100k?

Exactly.

Monstamio · 14/11/2023 22:55

Everyone gets 15 free hours (Universal entitlement) so that will already be a reduction on what you're currently paying. How much over £100k are you/your partner? If you're close then just up your pension contributions to get you under the threshold. If you're way above then you can afford it!

Not sure you're going to get much sympathy here!

EatYourVegetables · 14/11/2023 22:58

It’s not meant to help with your (presumably massive) mortgage. YABU.

UsingChangeofName · 14/11/2023 23:00

Why do you think every tax payer should subsidise your childcare, when you are such high earners ? Confused That would make no sense to me.

QueenOfWeeds · 14/11/2023 23:01

I agree that this is not the place for you to find a sympathetic audience. What I find ridiculous is that it is tested per adult, not per household. DH just edges over the threshold so, despite my poorly paid, public service job, we don’t qualify. Fine. But we have friends where both people in the couple earn just below the threshold so, despite their household income being £50-80K higher than ours, they are able to claim free hours. It absolutely should be there for people who need it, but in some of the households we know, they definitely don’t need it - it just enables them to have a slightly easier lifestyle. The government should fund childcare properly, and this in turn should encourage, facilitate, and support people returning to work.

TheCave · 14/11/2023 23:02

If you don't qualify because you earn more than £100k you can divert the excess above £100k into your pension and qualify that way. But that's only really worth doing - unless you are happy to take a significant drop in your current take-home pay - if you only earn slightly above £100k, surely? You can work out the maths but at a certain point it doesn't make sense to divert large amounts to your pension just to save a bit on childcare costs.

Sorry but I don't feel massively sorry for anyone earning £100k+ and "only" getting 15 "free" hours.

Nutellaonall · 14/11/2023 23:03

You won’t get much sympathy here but I agree it isn’t fair. Everyone on mumsnet agree that the Nordic countries are like some kind of perfect utopia but they believe in everyone gets access to the same benefits no matter how much they earn. People are total hypocrites. Everyone should pay tax and everyone should benefit from the society they create. But this country hates people that dare to be successful.

LoveBluey · 14/11/2023 23:08

The trouble is the rules will always have people who fall just outside the boundary and it's annoying but they have to set that limit somewhere.

It's just like the fact the funding is the term after they turn 3 - with an April, September or January birthday you have to wait until the next term starts before getting the funding.

Also the new additional funding that's coming in for younger babies is great but it starts just as my youngest starts school. I'm trying really hard not to be bitter about the extra £40k I will have spent on childcare compared to if I was just starting my family now. But they have to start it sometime and I just got unlucky.

Blondeshavemorefun · 14/11/2023 23:08

QueenOfWeeds · 14/11/2023 23:01

I agree that this is not the place for you to find a sympathetic audience. What I find ridiculous is that it is tested per adult, not per household. DH just edges over the threshold so, despite my poorly paid, public service job, we don’t qualify. Fine. But we have friends where both people in the couple earn just below the threshold so, despite their household income being £50-80K higher than ours, they are able to claim free hours. It absolutely should be there for people who need it, but in some of the households we know, they definitely don’t need it - it just enables them to have a slightly easier lifestyle. The government should fund childcare properly, and this in turn should encourage, facilitate, and support people returning to work.

This

Two can earn is it £98/99k so 198

But one can't earn £100 and other usually mum /So part time £20 so £120

Theoriginalmrscillianmurphy · 14/11/2023 23:12

@UsingChangeofName yet the government has subsided many low income households and single mothers so they can work less and stay at home.

Bonkers.

Original poster
bingbongbang23 · 14/11/2023 23:14

It is done on individual salary and not on household income. So you could have couple each earning £80k and qualify; then have a couple where one doesn't work and the other earns £101k and they don't qualify. That for me is madness

We encourage people to work, and yet it would be more lucrative for me to drop a day and take the 30hrs vs work full time as I do today

There is something flawed in this...

And yes, I can divert money to pension and/or offset bonus to stock options. But it's the principle of system that I don't agree with

OP posts:
Alohapotato · 14/11/2023 23:15

Lol, not feeling sorry for those who are moaning when having an income of 100K or 120K...

Original poster
bingbongbang23 · 14/11/2023 23:16

UsingChangeofName · 14/11/2023 23:00

Why do you think every tax payer should subsidise your childcare, when you are such high earners ? Confused That would make no sense to me.

I am not saying that. PI find it so odd that government would set a system whereby it is more beneficial for me to reduce hours to get these hours. That's absolute madness to me- we shouldn't be making it easier for people to work less 🤷‍♀️

Feels being penalised for working hard

OP posts:
transformandriseup · 14/11/2023 23:17

Your hourly rate must be pretty high to earn 100k so it would make no sense to reduce your hours just to qualify for this. You would still get 15 hours which would probably help.

I get £1200 per month is a lot but I know friends who are paying similar amounts and they earn less than 30k and don't qualify for any benefits.

PuttingDownRoots · 14/11/2023 23:22

Have you asked the nursery how much the fees will reduce by?

No point making drastic changes until you know the exact numbers

Pinkyyogapanties · 14/11/2023 23:25

I agree it is unfair . I believe if both parents are working the necessary amount of hours that their child should be entitled to 30 free hours.
2 people can earn 99k but 1 person can’t earn 102k . How is that fair. Same with child benefit .
I am a lowly teacher . And hubby earns good wage but not 100!
DB earns over 101. Why should he be penalized ? He pays a massive whack in tax which goes in the pot for everyone. Why doesn’t his child deserve free nursery hours. Yes 100k take home is -£5k a month but full time nursery is £1500 a month in London. That leaves him £3,500 for
Mortgage, bills, living , car, petrol maintenance . Living in London 3.5k for a house hold isn’t huge .

He thinks he has a great life and would never complain but I’m just saying I don’t see why his child isn’t entitled to 30 free hours. Yet Tim and Jo can £196k between them and they are entitled to it.

jupitermonket · 14/11/2023 23:39

bingbongbang23 · 14/11/2023 23:16

I am not saying that. PI find it so odd that government would set a system whereby it is more beneficial for me to reduce hours to get these hours. That's absolute madness to me- we shouldn't be making it easier for people to work less 🤷‍♀️

Feels being penalised for working hard

Show quote history

Oh jeez, stop with the faux victimhood. No one is penalising you for working hard. You would only have to drop hours if you GENUINELY CANT AFFORD the childcare fees, which you clearly can as you have been for years.

Only a certain type of Mumsnetter ignores their blatant comfort, good fortune and privilege to snivel that they don’t get exactly the same as the much less comfortable, less fortunate, less privileged people whom are meant to benefit from the social system.

I really couldn’t find the energy in my life to complain about something like this, and make myself the centre of some sort of imagined injustice.

TheSeasonalNameChange · 14/11/2023 23:40

It's mad isn't it? The new changes seem to be a total cut off at £100k rather than the 30 to 15 free hours currently. Think it means my family would pay approximately £20k per year more if one of us earnt £100k instead of £99k, so we won't. Same with a lot of our friends.

greenmarsupial · 14/11/2023 23:44

I do agree that everyone should benefit from the system that they pay into. There was talk of means testing the winter fuel payment but it was decided that it would cost more than the money it would recoup- I'm not sure why this isn't the same.

I don't like the system personally because I am a student on a bursary rather than a salary so we don't qualify for anything at all. It's a public service qualification and I'm working for the service but the technicality of how I'm paid means we get £0 childcare help.

sipsqueak · 14/11/2023 23:51

OP you still get 15 free hours, don't you?

Childcare is painfully expensive for almost everyone. But social benefits are means tested for good reason.