Page 2 | 30 hours free childcare- means tested?!

bingbongbang23 · 2023-11-14T22:47:03+00:00

Sure I will get blasted, but I only just realised that the 30hr free childcare is means tested. I have paid full price for my child for past 2 years- at a whopping £1240 a month, but it is what it is. Selfishly, i was so looking forward to her turning 3 and getting the free hours. Would be a massive help with mortgage going up. However I don't qualify. And it is not a sliding scale, I don't qualify for anything. So I would actually be better off reducing hours so I would qualify for the free hours- in what world should that be the case?! Makes no sense to me!

flyinglowtonight · 14/11/2023 23:59

Feels being penalised for working hard

Because those on lower salaries don't work hard? Have a

Original poster

bingbongbang23 · 14/11/2023 23:59

PuttingDownRoots · 14/11/2023 23:22

Have you asked the nursery how much the fees will reduce by?

No point making drastic changes until you know the exact numbers

Absolutely agree, and if we were staying in private nursery it would be a different story. I want to put her to the school nursery. She would then share the wrap around care that I already have in place for her sister- and so she would effectively go to having nil childcare costs (as I already pay for her sisters).

OP posts:

Original poster

bingbongbang23 · 15/11/2023 00:01

flyinglowtonight · 14/11/2023 23:59

Feels being penalised for working hard

Because those on lower salaries don't work hard? Have a

You misunderstand. I never said those on lower salaries didn't work hard.

But my point stands- I work hard, and yet it is more beneficial for me to go part time. There is a flaw in the system there. It is actually telling me I will be better off 'not ' working hard (ie full time)

OP posts:

Original poster

bingbongbang23 · 15/11/2023 00:02

@jupitermonket ,rather harsh response :)

You will see a lot of people on this thread do see the point I am making and understand the frustration

OP posts:

carpool · 15/11/2023 00:03

Also don't get 30 hours if one parent isn't working even if that is because they can't because of health problems. I know a family in this situation and those health problems also impact the ability to be a SAHP (therefore they need the 30 hours childcare) and they don't qualify for any benefits either because their partner earns too much (although nothing like the OP). There are always winners and losers in any system unfortunately not sure how it can be made to be fair to everyone.

SaturdayGiraffe · 15/11/2023 00:04

I think it’s very important for pregnant women to be given detailed information on available govt childcare support.

The fact you were able to carry on for years under a misunderstanding of basic information, and that many women assume they don’t qualify even when they do, shows that we are not doing a good enough job of explaining the system to everyone clearly.

Original poster

bingbongbang23 · 15/11/2023 00:04

greenmarsupial · 14/11/2023 23:44

I do agree that everyone should benefit from the system that they pay into. There was talk of means testing the winter fuel payment but it was decided that it would cost more than the money it would recoup- I'm not sure why this isn't the same.

I don't like the system personally because I am a student on a bursary rather than a salary so we don't qualify for anything at all. It's a public service qualification and I'm working for the service but the technicality of how I'm paid means we get £0 childcare help.

That's awful- it's there no scheme to help you with childcare while you study? I thought universities helped with this nowadays

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NorthernLights5 · 15/11/2023 00:05

Feels being penalised for working hard It honestly makes me feel a bit sick when people feel like this. More money does not always equal harder work. I'd like to invite you to a 12hr care shift without a break (although of course an hour will be deducted for your imaginary break) working with residents with dementia and challenging behaviour. Do cleaners/shop assistants/nursery workers/teachers/police officers/others earning under 100k not work hard?

Also the free hours are for the children, to enrich their lives, not to make it easier for parents.

TheSeasonalNameChange · 15/11/2023 00:13

@NorthernLights5 in this case they are the same thing though. Having more disposable income working for £80k for 4 days than £100k for 5 is literally being penalised for working harder.

UsingChangeofName · 15/11/2023 00:14

NorthernLights5 · 15/11/2023 00:05

Feels being penalised for working hard It honestly makes me feel a bit sick when people feel like this. More money does not always equal harder work. I'd like to invite you to a 12hr care shift without a break (although of course an hour will be deducted for your imaginary break) working with residents with dementia and challenging behaviour. Do cleaners/shop assistants/nursery workers/teachers/police officers/others earning under 100k not work hard?

Also the free hours are for the children, to enrich their lives, not to make it easier for parents.

I have to agree with all of this.

You misunderstand. I never said those on lower salaries didn't work hard.

Not explicitly, but it is implied in the wording.

NorthernLights5 · 15/11/2023 00:25

in this case they are the same thing though. Having more disposable income working for £80k for 4 days than £100k for 5 is literally being penalised for working harder. You mean working more hours, not working harder. Some people work harder working 7 days a week low wage jobs than some working 5 days a week for over 100k. Although I appreciate sime people have no idea what hard work is as they've never done/experienced it.

PestilencialCrisis · 15/11/2023 00:29

bingbongbang23 · 14/11/2023 23:14

It is done on individual salary and not on household income. So you could have couple each earning £80k and qualify; then have a couple where one doesn't work and the other earns £101k and they don't qualify. That for me is madness

We encourage people to work, and yet it would be more lucrative for me to drop a day and take the 30hrs vs work full time as I do today

There is something flawed in this...

And yes, I can divert money to pension and/or offset bonus to stock options. But it's the principle of system that I don't agree with

Read the room

DonnaBanana · 15/11/2023 00:56

Reduce your hours. You’re paying 60% tax between 100-125k now so it’s hardly worth it. Might as well have the time and keep the full 30 hours

whosaidtha · 15/11/2023 01:41

I think you are wrong about it being beneficial going part time. 15 hours where I live is about £90 but let's be generous and say it's £135. If your wage is over 100k you definitely earn more than £135 a day so you wouldn't be better off. And remember that its term time only so even less than you think.

Confusion101 · 15/11/2023 01:51

OP I'd love to see your calculations. How much money would it actually save you to reduce your working week by 1 day to receive this payment?

mimi0708 · 15/11/2023 01:53

bingbongbang23 · 14/11/2023 23:14

It is done on individual salary and not on household income. So you could have couple each earning £80k and qualify; then have a couple where one doesn't work and the other earns £101k and they don't qualify. That for me is madness

We encourage people to work, and yet it would be more lucrative for me to drop a day and take the 30hrs vs work full time as I do today

There is something flawed in this...

And yes, I can divert money to pension and/or offset bonus to stock options. But it's the principle of system that I don't agree with

Yup completely agree with you OP that it is madness that it is based on individual salary and not household income! We had the same thing and people who are earning more than us as a household qualified because their individual salaries are below the threshold!

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 15/11/2023 04:57

UsingChangeofName · 14/11/2023 23:00

Why do you think every tax payer should subsidise your childcare, when you are such high earners ? That would make no sense to me.

Because they are probably paying a large amount of tax and should be able to get something in return during those tougher years

pinkfondu · 15/11/2023 05:03

And arent you in such a fortunate position be able to have such choices. For some those hours is the difference between being able to keep a roof over their heads or work at all.

TheCurtainQueen · 15/11/2023 06:24

I agree OP. The system is ridiculous. My best friend and her partner earn a combined £140k (£70k each) and get the 30 free hours. My husband and I earn a combined £135k (£100k and £35k) and only get 15 free hours. It’s baffling that it is not calculated on household income.

Have a look at tax free childcare instead.

RecycleMePlease · 15/11/2023 06:43

I bet, like child benefit, and so many other means tested benefits, that the amount it costs to do the means testing is the same or more than the amount they would spend to just give it to everyone.

The cost/benefit analysis of means testing is rarely justifiable (unless you want popular votes or to create entire departments to do it)

Pleaseletitbebedtime · 15/11/2023 06:47

Orangeteddy · 14/11/2023 22:54

I thought 15 hours free was universal for all 3 & 4 year olds?

For the other 15 hours to take you up to 30 free hours, depends how far over the threshold your pay is vs the cost of nursery? With losing the tax allowance too you may be better off dropping a day at work or paying more into your pension - only relevant though if you’re slightly over £100k

It is. I think it’s called 15 hours of education but it’s free.

CrispsandCheeseSandwich · 15/11/2023 06:48

And it is not a sliding scale, I don't qualify for anything.

You get 15 free hours.

RecycleMePlease · 15/11/2023 06:53

For those of us who like facts BTW (source HMRC), :

The 10% of income taxpayers with the largest incomes contribute over 60% of income tax receipts.

In the UK, the threshold for the top 10% of personal income before tax is £59,200

Median is about 30k, the 50th to 90th centiles pay 30% of total tax, and up to the 50th centile less than 10%

So actually half of people here really are barely contributing to OP's childcare anyway.

And before we tell people with children that that's their choice, take into account that single workers in the UK are taxed a little less than EU average, and those with children are taxed a fair whack more than EU average (source OECD)

In the United Kingdom, the average single worker faced a net average tax rate of 23.6% in 2022, compared with the OECD average of 24.6%

Taking into account child related benefits and tax provisions, the employee net average tax rate for an average married worker with two children in the United Kingdom was 18.8% in 2022, which is the 11th highest in the OECD, and compares with 14.1% for the OECD average.

EveSix · 15/11/2023 06:55

The system is flawed in terms of the threshold for eligibility ‐that's annoying.
But I am astounded that any household where one partner earning 100k, even if the other earns nothing, would struggle, unless overextended on mortgage or other expenditure. Any family surely expects a few very lean years between the end of maternity leave and the start of school. 100k is still a really decent household income, whether shared between two earners or provided by a sole breadwinner.

WarningOfGails · 15/11/2023 07:06

It drives me mad that things like this aren’t assessed on household income, child benefit should be too.

I am not sure what I think though, is there a point where people should pay for their own childcare? I feel uncomfortable about the government supporting the wealthy in order for them to feather their nests a bit more while we have more families than ever living in temporary accommodation etc.