To think society hates children?

[Orangeandgold]

During a crisis people tend to defend children and babies, but on a day to day basis when everything is “normal” I usually find and feel so much hatred towards children.

My DD picked this up quite young too. It is small subtle everyday conversations and actions.

I would have to remind an adult not to barge past a 5 year old when there is enough space on the pavement; or people that feel that they can comment or roll their eyes at you and be malicious because you have a buggy; or general comments in conversations about “all kids are brats/ those children/why would anyone have them.”; animals are so much more loving than children …

… and the comments go on!

If you don’t want children you don’t have to have them, but we were all kids once. AIBU to feel that society in general hates children and to get upset about it every now and then? Or am I just in a pessimistic bubble? Maybe it’s also the city, people have less tolerance? I just feel nobody really looks out for each other the way we would growing up - I would have neighbours on the look out as a child but now it’s different.

Absolutely agree with what you have written. The UK feels like a very old, stagnant, declining country right now.

Other people don’t like bad parenting in public.

But “hate”? That’s your projection.

I pay huge amounts of tax for your DC’s education and healthcare, and I’m happy to do so - that’s not hate. But please stop your children and your buggy to take up all the space in the disabled spots on public transport; make sure their Peppa Pig is not watched at volume in public without headphones; if they’re tantrumming and screaming take them out of the cafe; and stop your 5 year old scooting out of control on the pavement .

It’s pretty simple give and take @Orangeandgold

But I suspect you just want to be goady.

Is it considered wrong now to talk to your baby or toddler?

I had DD quite late and didn't really read up on parenting theories but I thought it was just part of normal child development and bonding to talk to and interact with your kids. Isn't that how they learn about the world and how to relate to other people?

People complain about too much screen time but now we're not supposed to talk to our children either?

No wonder parents get stressed.

One of the benefits of being an older mother is that I have got to the stage where I no longer care much what judgement others might pass on me. Although teenage DD does think I talk too much.😀

Indeed.

And you know, most young children bounce. The elderly do not. There are very good reasons for some elderly people to be very wary of children in public.

I remember one of the first threads I read here on MN - about a decade ago- was about the appallingly huge consequences of a child on a scooter flying along the pavement and knocking an elderly woman over. She ended up in a care home permanently whereas she had previously been independent.

And the responses on the thread were mostly that the child couldn’t help it and the “old woman” should have looked where she was walking. I couldn’t believe how shockingly heartless some of those poster were. And supposedly having DC makes you more aware of the world in a special way - “As a mother …”

But you know what, me and just about every other working parent out there also pays “huge amounts of tax for my DC’s education and healthcare (what healthcare - a few vaccines?! That’s the only healthcare my D.C. have ever had to date)” why do you think you are unique in doing this? And previous generations including those without children also paid tax and NI to pay for your education and healthcare. My children will pay tax and NI to pay your state pension and healthcare - it’s called the social contract and it’s a feature of a healthy society. I am a higher rate tax payer - I don’t claim child benefit because I earn too much, I frequently pay tax towards things that do not directly benefit me or that I actually use - like the armed forces, the judiciary, the prisons and probation service, the environment agency, flood defences, ambulance and the fire brigade. I don’t resent doing so and even if I did I don’t have a choice in paying towards any of these things. None of us does. And I have no possible way of identifying where or how my tax and NI is spent as opposed to other people’s.

I really really resent people who weaponise this line about paying taxes for my D.C. Its inaccurate and untrue and it really feeds into this attitude of selfishness and individualism I mentioned - “I pay for your DC” - no you don’t. You don’t pay anything towards the cost of caring for or providing for my children or anyone else’s so please stop with the entitlement.

Nice judgement of mothers there. Is it only the mother who should be more aware of the world in a special way or does this apply to fathers too? Echoing a previous poster who said it’s always a mother’s place to be in the wrong.

But you know what, me and just about every other working parent out there also pays “huge amounts of tax for my DC’s education and healthcare (what healthcare - a few vaccines?! That’s the only healthcare my D.C. have ever had to date)” why do you think you are unique in doing this? And previous generations including those without children also paid tax and NI to pay for your education and healthcare. My children will pay tax and NI to pay your state pension and healthcare - it’s called the social contract and it’s a feature of a healthy society. I am a higher rate tax payer - I don’t claim child benefit because I earn too much, I frequently pay tax towards things that do not directly benefit me or that I actually use - like the armed forces, the judiciary, the prisons and probation service, the environment agency, flood defences, ambulance and the fire brigade. I don’t resent doing so and even if I did I don’t have a choice in paying towards any of these things. None of us does. And I have no possible way of identifying where or how my tax and NI is spent as opposed to other people’s.

I really really resent people who weaponise this line about paying taxes for my D.C. Its inaccurate and untrue and it really feeds into this attitude of selfishness and individualism I mentioned - “I pay for your DC” - no you don’t. You don’t pay anything towards the cost of caring for or providing for my children or anyone else’s so please stop with the entitlement.

👏

Well said !!

What a ridiculous thing to say ' I pay for your DC '. Absolutely ridiculous.

@ParsnipSurprise88 exactly. All the miserable bastards claiming that their taxes pay for other people's children's (underfunded) education should appreciate knowing that the better educated today's kids are, the better paid jobs and therefore more tax they'll one day pay, to help cover your pensions.
Even if they do dare to make noise in public.

I don’t have children of my own.
I don’t hate children at all.
I deal with sick and injured children in my job on occasions.
I would do, and have done things to help a child in need whether I know them or not, and whether I’m at work or not.
I dislike parents who raise their children to be spoilt, entitled, selfish, bratty little shits.
I don’t hate badly behaved children because it’s not their fault. It’s their selfish, shitty, inept parents that I hate, but I can’t always help showing irritation unfortunately.
I think society is set up for and geared entirely towards children and families.

I don’t know anyone who expects young children to behave ‘perfectly’ at all times but I do think both sides of this debate need to manage expectations and dare I say their entitlement as well. My local Pizza Express has clearly made a big effort to tap into the kids birthday market. Walking past the place on a Saturday afternoon and you will see 20 plus under 10s, balloons, cakes, games, laughter, tears etc and all very noisy. I would be a bit of twat going in there for lunch and expecting a calm and tranquil experience, so I don’t. I also think it is unreasonable for some parents to take their young children to certain areas/venues that are clearly pitched at adults and use them as training grounds for their kids social development or whatever. That is not hating children, that is just not wanting to drop £200 on what is supposed to be romantic meal while sat next to kids watching Pepper Pig or singing Frozen. It’s not hard to make the distinction.

I’ve never really come across it. But admittedly parents with zero control over their semi-feral kids are a complete PITA and IMO should be thrown into a rat infested dungeon for a fortnight. Probably wouldn’t improve their parenting, but I’d enjoy it. 😈

I think it's interesting how many people who say they 'don't hate children' are also absolutely jumping gleefully at the chance to call very young children 'brats', 'shits' or other such names.

I absolutely adore little kids. Love to see them doing their thing and love to hear all the cute things that they have to say.

I don't love parents who fail to consider how their kids' behaviour might be impacting on others around them though.

I wouldn't call the children brats. But I would say that some parents are twats.

Most kids behave, well, like kids, and most folk allow them quite a bit of latitude as they navigate their way through their early years. It's also an unpalatable truth though that some kids do behave like absolute unpleasant shits as well.

'The unpalatable truth is that some old people do behave like absolute unpleasant shits' - doesn't sound great, does it?

Doesn't sound great but it's true!

I’ve heard parents call their own kids worse, let alone kids they don’t know. You have probably done it too so wind your neck in with the sanctimonious holier than thou crap.

Most children are not little shits. Some are because that’s what their parents have created. It’s still not really the kid’s fault that they’re a little shit though.

I actually think some kids are little shits even when their parents try very hard with them - it isn't always fair to blame the parents.

I don't disagree with that statement either. Making factual observations about the behaviour of others is hardly a controversial thing to do, we all subconsciously do it all the time. Adults are judged more harshly as they should know better. As alluded to above kids generally get a lot of latitude as they are still learning to behave in public but even then I have seen some incredibly cruel, destructive, violent, and vindictive behaviours in kids that certainly earns them the description of 'little shits'.

YABU. People don't hate children themselves, they hate parents who don't operate them correctly. Your child should never cause a nuisance to anyone else - if they do, it's your fault.

The way I look at it is there's a certain amount of blame to be apportioned for any negative action, and there's a sliding scale to determine how much the child perpetrator should be given, the rest going to the parent(s). In the case of a baby it's pretty much 100% on the parents. In the case of a 15 year old it's getting much lower. I'd say 10 is the 50/50 point.

I'd like to see this kind of scale used to determine the punishment when a law is broken. Say if a 10yo murders someone, the child gets 20 years to life and so do the parents.

I like children a lot, and always try to make them feel welcome in this world. The way they see the world, and their natural humour are enchanting. Don’t have any myself though, so it might just be the novelty.

I would like to see the human being that never causes a nuisance to anyone else ever.

I think too many post Boomer parents think that " child centred parenting" should mean " child centred society". And these types will be continually shocked that adults, even in the seemingly more progressive West will resist that notion, especially in countries like the UK where there has been a total breakdown in shared cultural aspiration.....which can translate into socialising children being put on the back burner by too many parents.
And the results of this lack of socialisation being pathologised, or not according to the class the child comes from in the world of education in this country makes things even worse.
Of course the parents are to blame and it will get worse.
Yesterday on a thread about impolite children not saying thanks for gifts, the notion of feeling a way for not receiving thanks was called "performative gift giving".
I also see the expectations of teachers and teaching assistants with little emphasis on the unwritten rules that should apply to children in mainstream education, neurotypical or not as pretty indicative of why many people want some places outside of sex clubs free of children. Too many of them are allowed to be horrible outside of their homes in a society that hovers over and vets children far more in the last twenty five years than ever before and where children owning the streets has been anathema definitely all this century, so far.

The notion of childhood is too long and infringing nowadays.
This will not suit many children, much less adults and we see that everyday.
The most confident parents I know are those who adhere to a lot of "old school" with the aim of getting the children out renting or mortgaging by age twenty five, if children are neurotypical.
But this means parenting children to become adults, despite the state of society and economy.

Yes to TempsPerdu and ParsnipSurprise. The policy attitude towards children in the UK is very much one of them being a lifestyle choice/personalised 'risk' rather than the foundation of future society. Where I live, the fourth and subsequent children receive more child benefit than the first three - the polar opposite to the UK's cap. Childcare, including after-school clubs, is state-subsidised and parental contributions based on income. If everyone feels invested in children, people are going to see them more as full members of society.

I'm trying to think if the language here has an expression equivalent to 'brat' or (ugh) 'little shit'. It doesn't. Well, it does, but anyone using it would be considered to be either joking or from the middle of the last century. (Which of course doesn't mean we are all standing around passively in the face of hordes of disruptive children swarming everywhere. People of all ages seem, generally, to rub along fine).

Worked with children for years never find this when we are out and about daily..... obviously some people don't see children like they don't see anyone when in a rush....but people tend to be kind and understanding unless your not supervising them and they are being disruptive like climbing on tables and screaming in a resteraunt.