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Original poster

Not to sit Shiva for Dad? Sorry this is a bit Jewish!

86 replies

DistrictAndCircle · 12/11/2023 19:46

My Dad may die soon. He is a secular Jew. I am an even more secular Jew.

When he dies there will be an expectation that we sit Shiva for him. For those who don’t know - this means prayers every night for a week, at his house, with my sister, his siblings and his wife (who isn’t my mum). Friends and family attend, there’s a bit of food, the Rabbi comes etc. It’s meant to send him on his way and be a comfort to the mourners.

This is a big deal even for the most secular Jews.

But I don’t want to do it! It is genuinely stressing me out, and I fear it will make my grief quite a bit worse. It wouldn’t be a comfort to me in the least. It would be the exact opposite.

Dad lives 3hrs drive away. I don’t want to stay at his wife’s house, or in a hotel, for a week. I don’t want to say prayers in a language I don’t know, to a God I don’t believe in, in a room full of strangers and long-lost relatives who I’ve no real wish to re-find. I don’t even want to do it for a day let alone a week.

I want to be in my own house, with my own family, grieving in my own way, whatever that turns out to be. To be honest forcing me to be away from my spouse and kids doing that seems cruel to me. Yet I know it would be seen as unbelievably disrespectful to not do it, and possibly people will think I’m trying to make a point about religion or make it ‘all about me’ etc when actually I just want to be left alone to choose.

I don’t want to disrespect my dad. We’re not particularly close but he’s a decent guy. But… he’ll be dead! So does it matter?! I am much less close to his wife but don’t want to upset her. I suspect this would though. Not for any logical reason. Nobody actually believes in it. It would upset her just because it’s not the done thing and would be a talking point.

Perhaps this is more pertinent to the Jewish contingent but I’d value anyone’s views on whether I’d be being unreasonable to opt out, or whether I should suck it up for the sake of not upsetting people.

OP posts:
Mylobsterteapot · 12/11/2023 19:50

Disclaimer, I am not Jewish, so what I am about to suggest may not fit with the traditional expectations.
Could you, your DH and the children go up on a Saturday morning, be with your dad’s wife and visitor until after dinner, then have stay in a hotel. Have breakfast and then have a morning out doing something nice before heading home.
That feels like a compromise in that you get some time to mourn your dad in the way that you feel most comfortable, but also honouring the traditional process.

LoobyDop · 12/11/2023 19:51

Could you get away with just doing it for a day or two, or would that go down as badly as not doing it at all?

Hibambinos · 12/11/2023 19:52

You need to grieve as you see fit. Your beliefs are important . Grieve as you wil.

BertHandsomeAteMyBudgie · 12/11/2023 19:56

One thing you don’t mention, does your dad expect you, or want you to do it?

it may be that he actually doesn’t mind much, but also it hasn’t occurred to him to vocalise that.
is he in a position for you to be able to discuss his wishes?
it is actually the sort of thing a rabbi might be able to help with if you weren’t confident of broaching it? Just a thought.

fourelementary · 12/11/2023 19:58

Could you pretend you cannot get time off? Or some other kind of emergency. And perhaps see a local Rabbi to ask if there is a kind of acceptable alternative ? Tricky though really…

GladWhere · 12/11/2023 19:58

Im so sorry for your loss.

I would rather be honest and just not go but would it help if you told a lie about why you can't go? If it made his widow more at ease with your absence then maybe you could argue that it was a positive lie.

Original poster
DistrictAndCircle · 12/11/2023 20:03

Thanks for those first few replies.

Dad wants the full week. It’s as important to him as I’ve seen Christenings be to non-believing ‘Christian’ friends of mine. They want to do it for reasons that even they can’t define. But they know they definitely want to do it.

But he’ll be dead! So it’s not like he can get upset if it doesn’t happen.

Going for one or two days is obviously a potential compromise. I can see this happening. But I fear that I’ll find it very hard to leave without causing upset.

There’s no way I can get out of it by lying and saying that something more important has come up. People would rightly ask what’s more important than my dad dying.

OP posts:
MorrisZapp · 12/11/2023 20:05

Sorry to hear that about your dad. Surely working age adult children aren't expected to take a full week off without notice in this day and age? Is there an option for attending fewer nights, or swapping with siblings?

MorrisZapp · 12/11/2023 20:06

Sorry, I cross posted.

Namechangeagain2023 · 12/11/2023 20:06

I would do one night. Secular as i am I simply don’t think I could do nothing, equally a week is too much and too intense. I compromised when i was the mourner on 3 nights but would have preferred 2. Much as i really really didn’t want to do it, i did get a lot of comfort from it and totally dind’t expect to.

would your husband and kids not be with you?

The service is very short, you can even go out the room when they do it and if you’re really uncomfortable don’t do the chairs and don’t hang around for the tea and cake.

Honestly, it’s your dad, if his wish is for a shiva I think that you should do the one night and then go home and have your time to yourself

FromEden · 12/11/2023 20:07

Well if it's what he wants then you really should try your best to fulfill his wishes imo. It's not really about you at this point.

Namechangeagain2023 · 12/11/2023 20:09

DistrictAndCircle · 12/11/2023 20:03

Thanks for those first few replies.

Dad wants the full week. It’s as important to him as I’ve seen Christenings be to non-believing ‘Christian’ friends of mine. They want to do it for reasons that even they can’t define. But they know they definitely want to do it.

But he’ll be dead! So it’s not like he can get upset if it doesn’t happen.

Going for one or two days is obviously a potential compromise. I can see this happening. But I fear that I’ll find it very hard to leave without causing upset.

There’s no way I can get out of it by lying and saying that something more important has come up. People would rightly ask what’s more important than my dad dying.

No you can’t say there is something more important. Somehow you have to manage a night. Do you have siblings?

What i wouldn’t agree to do though is that open house thing when people you have never met and don’t want to meet come and visit. I was forced to do that and it was utterly hideous.

having said that, DP’S uncle died a few months ago. Only one of his kids married in but they did the full week as per his wishes and i have to say it was really wonderful and def the right thing for them. They had some wonderful eulogies from his kids and grandchildren. It was funny and sad and a real comfort to his wife

Goatymum · 12/11/2023 20:10

I’m Jewish - can you sit in your house for one night? Shivas aren’t always at one place if family is spread about. My friend had one night at his house when his parent died as he lived in a different town and all his friends etc were local to him. A frum friend of his did the prayers.
Also my other question is will there be a funeral? First night shiva is usually the same night unless it’s a Friday, could you not just sit that night?
I agree shiva can be gruelling - I have sat for both parents and I was young. It was nice having friends visit and to chat to, but it is exhausting as well. Bit of a double edged swoRd.

RinklyRomaine · 12/11/2023 20:10

My dad sat two nights for his mum. He's not religious and left the faith young but it was important to his mum that her only son participated and the rest of his family completely understood. I'd try and do one night, so you don't regret it later on, and explain gently to his wife.

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 12/11/2023 20:11

From having a close friend who’s Jewish (secular) she’s sat Shiva for both her DM and DF, both at her house. I understand it’s hard but I think you just have to go and stay nearby and do it. It’s for your dad not you.

Goatymum · 12/11/2023 20:12

MorrisZapp · 12/11/2023 20:05

Sorry to hear that about your dad. Surely working age adult children aren't expected to take a full week off without notice in this day and age? Is there an option for attending fewer nights, or swapping with siblings?

They are. I took a week and a bit off when my mum died - she died on a Weds and I was back in the Monday week after. Most people would take bereavement leave of approximately a week, surely.

Namechangeagain2023 · 12/11/2023 20:13

Goatymum · 12/11/2023 20:10

I’m Jewish - can you sit in your house for one night? Shivas aren’t always at one place if family is spread about. My friend had one night at his house when his parent died as he lived in a different town and all his friends etc were local to him. A frum friend of his did the prayers.
Also my other question is will there be a funeral? First night shiva is usually the same night unless it’s a Friday, could you not just sit that night?
I agree shiva can be gruelling - I have sat for both parents and I was young. It was nice having friends visit and to chat to, but it is exhausting as well. Bit of a double edged swoRd.

Agree with this, i have to say i think that funerals and shiva are the one thing we Jews do really well. I agree, tell them that you’re going to sit one night with them one one night at home (even if you’re not). It’s the last thing you can do for your dad, yes he’s dead but it closes everything off nicely.

Irritatedandfedupandsad · 12/11/2023 20:13

Am not Jewish but if it’s your Dads wishes you really should do .

TooBigForMyBoots · 12/11/2023 20:14

You don't have to decide this now @DistrictAndCircle. When the time comes to grieve, trust yourself.

The time spent waiting for a loved one to die is extremely difficult. Strength, love and peace to you and your family.

CaramelMac · 12/11/2023 20:14

If you don’t want to do it then don’t do it, I didn’t go to either of my grandparents funerals, they were hours drive away and I had young children and couldn’t really afford a hotel stay. No one got angry with me and if they disapproved they didn’t tell me. It didn’t mean I wasn’t sad or loved them any less. Sometimes you just have to do what’s best for you.

Thehonestybox · 12/11/2023 20:14

Just let his wife and rest of the family do it. But if you can cope I would do 2 days as a compromise

strawberry2017 · 12/11/2023 20:14

I'm not Jewish do I don't fully understand however I just wanted to pass on some love and strength at this difficult time.
Whatever choice you make needs to be one you are comfortable and one you can live with.
X

SpuytenDuyvil · 12/11/2023 20:15

You might want this moved to Jewish Mumsnetters if you want to hear from Jews. Most of us are not looking at AIBU very much right now. Have you seen the movie, "This is Where I Leave You"? It is a pretty funny movie with sitting shiva as the framing device. I would go. You will only sit shiva for your father once in your life and you will always know if you didn't do the last thing you can do for him.

CesareBorgia · 12/11/2023 20:16

I am not Jewish but as you've asked for general opinions, I don't think, as a daughter, your grief and wishes take second place to your father's wife. Working out a compromise would be a nice thing to do, but whatever you decide you should not feel guilty about how you wish to grieve for your father.

GladWhere · 12/11/2023 20:16

Irritatedandfedupandsad · 12/11/2023 20:13

Am not Jewish but if it’s your Dads wishes you really should do .

Why though? Why 'should' she do it.