If you’d be in the Ukraine at the start of the war, but with kid/s, would you both resist and if not how would you decide who would care for the kids????

[Wills]

I’m studying psychology and believe myself to be a full on feminist. But with that in mind how would your family divide up the horror of going to war against the horror of staying at home? I’m really interested in this and am very aware that nuclear options abound, but….

Nowadays, given women’s supposed equality, which (lets me be frank) isn’t true what do couples in really equal relationships do? This is possibly better answered by same sex families but I’m more interested in male/female couples because of the massive history of putting women down. Most same sex couples have experienced so much prejudice that their decision on who would go to war would, probably, be based on the qualities I’m interested in. For relevance I suspect my own husband, father to four children, would insist on going to war through sheer fear of me dying and leaving him to care for the kids. But that’s not a good rationale.

I’m interested in couples, who have kids, regardless of gender - how would you split the responsibility of going to war?

I’m negatively attuned to think that most men (not all) still carry the myth that it’s a man’s responsibility to go to war and defend the family unit. For LGBTQ+ couples this might be translated as the more masculine of two individuals - but I’m really interested. Take the Ukraine. If you put yourselves in their shoes, would both of you go and leave your parents to care for you kids? Or would one of you stay at home. How would you make that decision? Was it based on the ideal that women are more caring or was it based on which one of you would better fit army life.

Want to look at a PhD studying this so am fascinated. Whilst this may leave many to claim I have an ulterior motive. I don’t. I have loads of ways to study this issue, but watching the Israeli/Palestinian war at the moment I’m just saddened at the number of people/children dying. The words of Sting’s song with the line “The Russians love their children too” has been echoing in my brain for many years. So why?

I think the NATO situation is a little more nuanced than that. I also think that Zelenskyy has been an exceptional leader since Feb 2022.

Well he's certainly had a lot of help.

The vast majority of Ukrainians seem to approve, and that’s good enough for me.

Fair enough. I haven't read an of the reports you quote but I accept you believe them.

But you say, "I wouldn't fight on his behalf".

My dad fought throughout the 2nd ww and never fought for King George.

He fought for his country, and, when the guns sounded, his mates in the foxholes.

I'm sorry you don't believe in your homeland.

My late FIL was in the US army during WWII. He told me everyone was scared shitless of going to the front and I believe him.

Fair enough. I haven't read an of the reports you quote but I accept you believe them.

Why haven't you read them? You asked me for them and I've provided them and they're all legit. This isn't some anti MSM stance I'm taking and it's not a question of what I believe. These are verified reports of zelensky's activities. It's not just shit I'm spouting out of the top of my pointy little head.

The vast majority of Ukrainians seem to approve, and that’s good enough for me.

Ukraine is being attacked by Russia. The ordinary citizens don't have much choice about who to support rn plus there is a heavy war propaganda machine in play. But, prior to NATO deciding they were at war, they were pretty pissed off with Zelenskiy.

@Holopola we are talking about the here now. Things have irrevocably changed.

He raided the national bank. Things don't change that much.

NATO wanted a plucky little victim state to stand up to Russia because Putin was getting just a bit too big for their liking. Zelenskiy was in domestic trouble and fighting a seemingly unwinnable conflict on his borders even while utilising fascist brigades because he was fast losing control over them. Win win for everyone, except for Ukrainian citizens.

Except it’s not a ‘win-win’ for anyone, is it?

Same here. I read that men were not allowed to leave, but we'd have looked for any loophole we could to get DH (and adult DS) out.

I came to the UK as a child from a war zone so I have already been in that situation in a sense. I have no loyalty to my country (either the UK or imagining that I was from Ukraine) and would be happy to go to and stay in any developed country that allowed us in.

NATO wins if Russia becomes isolated - Russia was on the verge of setting up a lending/banking system along with Brazil, India, China and South Africa at the time the conflict escalated, having ticked along as a border dispute for years previous. Obviously this is all a bit derailed now. Zelenskiy also wins, in the short term, by deflecting attention away from his own hot dealings prior to becoming the flak jacket Paddington hero we all now know and apparently love.

But yes in a wider sense nobody wins a war.

Men are much stronger and much better at fighting.

Women are much better at childcare.

This is well understood in every human society that exists so I don’t get why it’s stretching your brain cells OP. 🥱

Equality doesn’t mean we are the same.

I would point out that at the time NATO decided Russia was invading the region had actually been at war for years

Was Russia who went full invasion in Feb 22.

Well, as generalisations go this is a cracker.

I'm stronger than some women, weaker than others.

I hate fighting some women like it.

And again, see Soviet women fighters in ww2.

But Russia isn’t isolated is it, nor is it likely to be if things continue in the same vein. Not only that, NATO don’t want an isolated Russia. They want a stable one. A totally isolated Russia would be even more dangerous than it is now.

It would be cruel to leave children without either parent, I think it's irresponsible for both parents to fight. Children should be top priority. I would try to escape with them and try to convince their father to escape as well before men are banned from leaving. In reality father can't protect his family from front, it's only beautiful slogan.

I think you have it when you say ‘women’s equality, which isn’t really true.’

Most of the strides women have taken towards equality have been about being able to do the things men do. Our society is still patriarchal and values ‘masculine’ traits over ‘feminine’ ones. I’m not saying every man wants to fight and every woman wants to care for kids/elderly but the fighting/being physically strong/being tough/macho are valued by us and so we keep electing leaders, male or female with those traits and keep seeing fighting as a way to solve differences. A truly equal society that values traditionally masculine and feminine traits/roles equally might look very different and we could see fewer wars in the future.

But to answer your question - I think my DP would go to war and I would stay with the kids. Already he works more outside the home and I do more with the kids. He would be more likely to support the war and the idea of fighting than me. He is physically stronger (although admittedly neither of us are strong enough to survive a bullet through the heart). This is all due to a mixture of biology/personality/political views/social expectations and conditioning.

Good luck with your PHD. Sounds interesting.

You wouldn’t have the choice. All able bodied men of appropriate age were conscripted.

DH said he would have wanted me away with DS when DS was a child but DS is now an adult though so would have been conscripted so I would have stayed. I am trained in a martial art though unsure how helpful that would be. When I was young I trained as a nurse though I retrained and had a major career switch in my late twenties, so I would be somewhere useful though a bit rusty in a field hospital medical setting.

My ancestors have fled in times of war before, the Japanese in the thirties and my Aunt who was a baby died. They settled in Hong Kong where my Dad was born and then he came to the UK in the fifties, my Dad was an extremely proud commonwealth citizen who adored the Queen. I have photo of him holding me in front of a poster that says Hong Kong loyal to the British taken in the late sixties.