To think this “crackdown” on benefit fraud is absolutely pathetic

[MissLou0]

We lose hundreds of billions from tax avoidance compared to 1 billion on benefit fraud and nothing is done about it, because those are the Tory donors. Michelle Mone just stole £28 million from taxpayers for her PPE scam, she’s not in trouble, and she of course also hides her hundreds of millions offshore.

We lose a small amount from benefit fraud, and as a result everyone who claims any sort of benefit including disability benefits banks are going to be monitored.

The graph below doesn’t even scratch the surface of how much is lost to tax avoidance. For example Rupert Murdoch is worth £17 billion and he hasn’t paid tax in years, personal tax or on his businesses. And he’s ONE person. These people are not targeted yet the most desperate and vulnerable are.

This is completely ignored by the media as the majority of newspaper owners are hiding their money offshore.

I’m in a situation where I don’t need to claim any benefits but I have family who are disabled who have had to fight for even the tiniest amount to live on, and they are now having to deal with this invasion of privacy which will make not even 0.000001% of what cracking down on tax avoidance would.

I was moved to UC last year as their were some major cock ups between housing benefit and my housing association. Was in support group, now in LCWRA.

It is actually surprising just how much information the DWP has on people, my husband is claiming attendance allowance and was asked some security questions one of which was the address where we lived prior to our current address, when we lived at our old address we had no contact with the DWP at all as we have never claimed benefits and my husband didn't start claiming his state pension until we had already moved to our current address but they still had a record of our old one.

This is an example of the ‘information sharing’ agreement between benefit claimants and the DWP. When your husband claimed his state pension this would have triggered checks on his NI contributions and liaison with HMRC so this is probably where they have obtained information about previous addresses. DWP also have access to information held by credit reference agencies in certain circumstances, so potentially could have obtained the information there if they had a reason to search his credit files.

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/dwp-ordered-release-information-about-decision-scrap-wca

This is the latest information I can find on the proposed changes to WCA for anyone interested. A poster upthread mentioned that she had submitted a freedom of information request on this subject. She’s unlikely to get a reply as the DWP are invoking legislation enabling them to resist FOI requests and they have currently not even complied with an order from the information commissioner to disclose background information on the changes. This article is from the disability news service, who have been actively campaigning against the changes.

The proposal is to scrap the WCA from 2029 but in the meantime the government is trying to push through changes to it which would drastically reduce the number of seriously ill and disabled people who qualify for benefit. There is a proposal to introduce a new ‘health element’ on UC to replace LCWRA. This would be linked to PIP and would effectively mean that only those who are on certain rates of PIP would qualify for the extra allowance and not be compelled to look for work or engage with work related activity. Medically unqualified DWP work coaches would be responsible for deciding what type of work and related activity would be suitable for those sick/disabled people now compelled to engage with work related activity.

Given that along with these changes, the DWP plan to remove the issue of fit notes from GP’s and give that responsibility to their own ‘therapists’ these proposals put the fate of the very most sick and disabled entirely into the hands of the DWP. They will oversee from end to end, the process of eligibility for benefit and exemption from job search. And given the appalling track record of quality of decision making for PIP and ESA, it’s not hard to see how this is going to affect the most vulnerable.

This isn’t about supporting the disabled back into work. It’s yet another attack on sick and disabled people - this time introducing conditionality where there was none before, specifically aimed at forcing the most sick and disabled to look for work. And it’s futile. The resulting savings won’t be a drop in the ocean compared to what would be saved if they put the same zealous effort into cracking down on tax evasion.

Out of interest, how long after your husband got his state pension did he claim AA?

@Rosscameasdoody yes that makes sense thank you

@Seymour5 it was 9 years as he is 74 now, but you can claim anytime after you reach state pension age as long as you have needed the level of care for 6 months, in DH case he was working up to last year but his health has deteriorated due to Diabetes and Heart condition

@Oldsu thank-you. The reason I asked is a friend, whose mobility was becoming increasingly limited, waited til she got her state pension, then applied. If she'd applied and been awarded even a few weeks earlier, she'd have qualified for PIP, including the mobility element.

That would have been better for her than AA, partly because she might have been awarded more money, but also she would automatically have been awarded a BB. So many people seem to think that older people get everything, the difference between disability benefits claimed before and after state retirement age suggests otherwise.

@Rosscameasdoody thanks so much for all that information. This might be a stupid question but, will we find out on the 22nd if all this is going ahead and when it will start from etc?

@Rosscameasdoody Freedom of Information are powerful but slow ways to extract information from government departments. Parliamentary Questions, asked by an MP are faster and generate more heat within the department.
Support groups need to make co-ordinated requests to pin down areas that DWP wish to exploit.
Purdah or the pre-election period is the five or six weeks before an election in which no policy announcements can be made to avoid electoral advantage and I suspect that FoIs and PQs will be put on hold for the same reason.
As much information as possible needs to be in the public domain before the next election - the vast amounts of data held by DWP mean that there is no good reason for anyone not receiving the benefits they are entitled to.

You seem to think that tax avoidance is illegal. It’s not.

@Seymour5 Yes I do understand but it also true that the care component (mid to high) of DLA and the daily living component of PIP and AA also gives extra money on pension credit whilst mobility does not.

This isn’t about supporting the disabled back into work. It’s yet another attack on sick and disabled people - this time introducing conditionality where there was none before, specifically aimed at forcing the most sick and disabled to look for work. And it’s futile. The resulting savings won’t be a drop in the ocean compared to what would be saved if they put the same zealous effort into cracking down on tax evasion.

@Rosscameasdoody, agree. Thanks for update.

@AutumnCrow, absolutely. A major form of LC has some overlapping symptoms with M.E, may not turn out identical but cousins certainly. ME is usually preceded by a viral infection. Medical authorities harmfully trivialised (ME for years stymying biomedical research and development of effective treatments. Seem to be at risk at repeating this with LC. Much more funding for biomed research needed for both illnesses. Instead authorities seem to just want to blame patients and cut sickness benefits. Cruel and shortsighted economically too.

Re long covid stats, the last ONS report in March 2023 estimates of the prevalence of self-reported long Covid indicated that 1.9 million people in the UK were experiencing long Covid representing 2.9% of the population. Of these, around 1.3 million people had symptoms that had lasted for more than a year and 762,000 had symptoms lasting for more than two years. 381,000 (20%) reported that their ability to undertake their day-to-day activities had been “limited a lot”.

Another analysis analysis showed that almost a third of people with long covid reporting symptoms at 12 weeks will have recovered within a year, leaves two thirds that hadn’t at one year . ME can be v debilitating and chronic for vast majority, a proportion of LC will probably be chronic too.

Has anyone else been asked to submit bank statements over a long term claim except at the start?

@birelonel , I have been on sickness and disability benefits for 25 years. I have twice been asked to submit bank statements as well as at the start. Once in 2017 and once in 2019.

Yes and it was found they were underpaying me so worked out in my favour.

Doesn’t make it right though does it ?

But mobility component at the higher rate gives access to the Motability scheme, which a lot of older disabled people could benefit from. It can’t be accessed with AA and with DLA and PIP a mobility award would have to have been in payment before reaching retirement age, as no new claim for it can be made afterwards. In addition, if on reassessment after retirement age a mobility award is withdrawn or reduced, there is no right of appeal, so any motability vehicle would have to be handed back.

@OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet , I am sorry you get calls from the job centre asking when you are thinking of returning to work despite being in the LCWRA group. Those in the the LCWRA group should have no work coach but will have a case manager. Is it the case manager calling you? Not right when you are too ill to work, v sorry.

Wonderful stuff in theory, but the DWP are a law unto themselves. There is no good reason for anyone not receiving the benefits they are entitled to, I agree. But the DWP routinely employ methods to withhold benefits from genuine claimants which don’t hold up to the scrutiny of an appeal tribunal and as a result it costs the tax payer a fortune, not to mention the effect on the claimants’ mental health - and these proposals will make things worse for the most vulnerable.

The problem is not that the information isn’t in the public domain - most of it is. The problem is that the public don’t care if it doesn’t affect them, and many people buy into the government narrative of disabled people being cheats and driving around in ‘free cars’. Government controls the narrative here, and until that changes nothing else will.

"My GP charges a whopping £180 for the necessary detailed letter."
And locally, that's about two months all day parking charge. So you would benefit from 10 months free parking, which seems fairly reasonable.

I don’t think any announcement on the 22nd will be more than a bit of flesh on the bones of the proposals. The changes are slated to be introduced over the next five years but nothing can be formally announced as definitely going ahead until the required legislation is in place and this is a lengthy process. It has to be passed by both the Commons and the Lords, and with disability benefit legislation, traditionally the House of Lords slows things down by batting amendments back and forth. There isn’t time for any of that before a general election, so it then becomes a question of what a new incoming government wants to do - assuming Labour stay on track to win.

PIP that replaced DLA in 2013 was supposed to reduce govt spending by 20% but ended up costing £2 billion more! So many suffered such as high rate of successful but stressful appeals or losing high rate mobility component and access to motability cars scheme as criteria tightened for high rate mobility award from 50 metres to 20 metres.

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2019/january/obrwelfaretrends

I get PIP but just about manage to work part time.. so does this mean they will be spying on me and might put hidden cameras in my house??

You clearly don’t understand what avoidance is.
The government uses tax breaks to raise money for schemes which they want to take place but don’t want to fund directly or in advance. These schemes benefit us all and wouldn’t happen if the tax breaks weren’t offered.