To think 6yr olds shouldn’t have a naughty table at school

[Charliebrow]

My 6 year old son has told us that at school his table is full of the naughty kids. It appears that the other kids on his table are the ones that seem to have behavioural problems and it’s clear his table is ‘bottom set’.
I have parents evening tomorrow and want to say something but don’t know what to say that doesn’t sound argumentative.
Everything I’ve read says all the evidence is that sets don’t work in primary school and are detrimental especially for the kids in the bottom set. However, sadly they are common place in the uk due to schools paying external education companies for resources which require kids to be set by ability. Our school uses twinkl.
I have ADHD (diagnosed recently) and daydreamed my way through school but managed to pull things out of the bag at secondary for exams, getting top grades at GCSE and a level in maths and science and going on to uni. I’m lucky that I was never streamed by ability until secondary school when I’d already demonstrated with SATs that I was good at maths so set 1.
i worry that my son has a higher ability than we and teachers realise and he’s being pigeon holed by being placed bottom set and also it’s affecting his confidence as he’s aware he’s on the naughty table.
Thanks for reading and for any help

It’s absolutely worth discussing to find out more, but you’ve really just assumed it’s the bottom set based on behaviour which may well not be the case. Poor behaviour doesn’t always mean lesser academic ability anyway. You need more information and to understand how things are done in the classroom before you decide if there’s a problem or not. I’d also want to discuss your sons behaviour with them and how you and school can support eachother because I’m assuming him being on this table means his behaviour is poor?

Definitely ask lots of questions but don't go in with assumptions based on what a 6yo has told you.

Thanks, yes we need to discuss his behaviour. My son has mentioned that one girl on his table doesn’t speak and I know another boy on his table seems to be struggling with the work because his mum asked on the class what’s app group if anyone could suggest a private tutor as he doesn’t seem “to get it”

Why are you assuming a girl that doesn’t speak is ‘bottom set’?

when the class did a school assembly the girl who my son said doesn’t speak was sat next to a teacher who read her line out for her. Every other kids said their line themselves. We’re sent photos of the school on an app and all the kids seem to be sat on 6 tables of 5 kids.

It’s not that she doesn’t speak that I’m presuming she’s bottom set, it’s the combination of the issues that everyone on his table seem to have and I’m obviously concerned and putting 2 and 2 together

And what does your child add to the mix? Does he have an issue too?

Children being grouped together isn't setting. It makes sense to group children together for certain things such as similar targets or shared objectives.

Tbh it doesn't matter how you have the children seated, they have a good idea about the general ability of the other children anyway.

However, you can certainly ask about your child's attainment and that he's concerned about the children he sits with.

He won't be pigeon holed as no other teacher is going to know where he sat the year before.

If he has needs that aren't being met then he could be assessed as being a lower attaining child when in fact he just needs more/different support. You could discuss specific issues you think he may have with the teacher and go from there.

We had this, this year. I think (couldn’t get to the bottom of it) they’d put all the kids with some sort of additional need, and / or on the SEN register on the table at front of class, I assume so they’d be able to access teacher easier (and vice versa)

however it was a mix of kids with anything from behaviour issues, to ADHD, to anxiety to learning challenges, and they were winding each other up (unsurprisingly) DS was massively impacted and distracted and we asked for him to be moved as a result.

if you want to do this, focus on the impact on your kid, do not allude to the other kids being naughty / lower ability etc

I think you are putting 2 and 2 together and getting 7 though.

Possibly adhd like me? I don’t know, something. I’m not saying he’s better than them, really my issue is that from what I’ve read all evidence is that pupils perform better when they’re sat with kids mixed abilities

Just a thought. Is the teacher putting these students together so TA can give them extra help?

Rather than the "bottom table", it may be the "table for those who need support, of whatever kind" - so the one that will have the teaching assistant or the teacher working with them most of the time.

Just a thought. Is the teacher putting these students together so TA can give them extra help?

Exactly what I was thinking.

It's worth asking the teacher about it though if it's concerning you.

Is the girl that (by the sounds of it) is selective mute naughty? I'd be surprised. I think it's probably the table that needs more help from the TA.
Are some of the other children at the table distracting/preventing your son from working? That is the angle I would take, rather than the are naughty or bottom set.

Actually most studies show that less able kids do better in mixed ability groups; whereas more able kids do better in streaming (mainly where they are middle to bottom of the pack)

So by all means quote studies that support your point of view, but get them right it certainly isn’t “all” studies.

It certainly sounds like they might be on a working table. Perhaps ask if he has any extra intervention in the day and if you can afford it a tutor might help him no end.

Horrible attitude - your son obviously requires support if he is at the table full of supported children.

As an aside, non verbal does not mean non thinking. My daughter is the same age as your son, is AuDHD and selectively mute. She sits at the table with adult support in her room, and she is in no way is "naughty". Nor is she in any way thick or dim- she's cheerfully "working above" her levels in her phonics, and "working at" in maths and science. She just struggles with speaking in certain environments. She's also a talented sportswoman. She just doesn't speak sometimes. That doesn't make her inferior or wrong.

You need to check your internalised prejudice. It's throughout what you've written, it's full of snap judgement and horrible language. Maybe you hate the "naughty table" because you spent so long hating your hidden disability? Regardless of whatever the mechanism, it doesn't give you the right to rag on your son's peers in any way.

Just be fucking thankful that your son is getting support if he needs it. Some people have to jump through hoops to even get that.

This isn’t setting or streaming or a naughty table. It sounds like ability-grouped tables.

Tbf my child was selectively mute at school and def not bottom set

Thanks, we’ve thought about a tutor but he has a short attention span and wondered if it was worth paying a tutor for a 20 minute session at best. We’ll definitely do that when he’s a bit older. Maybe we should look into it now though

Tutoring has been hugely helpful for both my children. It’s helped with their confidence primarily and my older child is now greater depth with his maths having been consistently on the working table in years 1-3.

Maybe instead of reading articles you could leave the professional teacher to actually teach the large group of children they have and manage their own classroom in a way which suits them and their children collectively.

Have you read any books on child development? That might be a worthwhile use of your time rather than getting in a state about tables and sets. Also look up the word differentiation. There are some children at 6 who are reading chapter books there are also some who find it hard to sit on a chair. How would you suggest these two groups of children are taught if you don’t want any sort of ‘setting’? Teachers differentiate planning because the abilities of children vary dramatically.
Your child is 6! He sounds normal to me. Read with him, make sure he reads with you and play games and he will be grand. He doesn’t need a tutor.
The teacher isn’t going to tell you why specific children are grouped as they are.

Yanbu. My son was also on that table - that teacher is the worst teacher in the whole school and I’m not surprised she thinks an idea like that is a good one.