To think 6yr olds shouldn’t have a naughty table at school

[Charliebrow]

My 6 year old son has told us that at school his table is full of the naughty kids. It appears that the other kids on his table are the ones that seem to have behavioural problems and it’s clear his table is ‘bottom set’.
I have parents evening tomorrow and want to say something but don’t know what to say that doesn’t sound argumentative.
Everything I’ve read says all the evidence is that sets don’t work in primary school and are detrimental especially for the kids in the bottom set. However, sadly they are common place in the uk due to schools paying external education companies for resources which require kids to be set by ability. Our school uses twinkl.
I have ADHD (diagnosed recently) and daydreamed my way through school but managed to pull things out of the bag at secondary for exams, getting top grades at GCSE and a level in maths and science and going on to uni. I’m lucky that I was never streamed by ability until secondary school when I’d already demonstrated with SATs that I was good at maths so set 1.
i worry that my son has a higher ability than we and teachers realise and he’s being pigeon holed by being placed bottom set and also it’s affecting his confidence as he’s aware he’s on the naughty table.
Thanks for reading and for any help

Oh and it had nothing to do with intelligence it was behaviour and boisterous-based.

she just put the loud boys on a table far away from her desk

Its not really about ability and more about behaviour/independence etc

There is often a supported table of kids who need more input from teacher and/or TA (for various reasons). It is simply practical to seat those children most in need of support together with the person supporting them.

You need to speak to the teacher. I teach primary and it would be impossible to give all of my class the support they need without seating them together for certain subjects. I don’t have a TA and I have around 6 children that require additional support to achieve the lesson objectives. It’s probably much better for your child, but speak to the teacher; you’ll feel better when you know why.

Thanks and I agree, I’ve written this in a rush and am not calm, and comments have made me realise how awful I sound and I’m embarrassed about that. I have a cousins with selective mutism and she is so well behaved and intelligent. It’s difficult to put a well balanced message with every detail due to not wanting to write a 12000 word dissertation. The girl who possibly has selective mutism is actually badly behaved, I’ve seen her at parties, and there’s usually a reason kids misbehave, an unmet need. My best friends daughter is struggling at school and suddenly became very badly behaved at school but always lovely at home. I don’t know anything for sure, how can I? Do I just presume the teacher wants as much for my son as I do? I’ve read that children placed in bottom set do worse than if they were in mixed abilities, I care less about the kids who have high ability, and I care more about my son who perhaps doesn’t

Grouping pupils together on a table within a class so that they can be helped appropriately is not 'setting'. Also, you are jumping to conclusions based on your own skewed judgements, and based on information from a 6 year-old. The teacher will organise the classroom as she sees fit.

I don’t think this is really about ability and more about singling your child out and grouping them with children with behavioural problems

I've taught for 20 years. Many children thrive in groups as they are able to shine rather than be overlooked by quicker, louder and more confident children. I think the teacher knows her class best and will be focused on doing the best job for the children in her care. I often sit the children who need support together as it's easy to either work as a group or be supported. In my experience, research often doesn't reflect the reality of schools.

The teachers have 30 children in the class and will be doing the best to balance all their needs.

Believe you me, they get hammered more if kids are slipping off the bottom than if the more able aren't given enough challenge, & their seating strategy will reflect that.

I mean, it’s probably doing your autistic child, no favours to be in a mainstream school and then having behavioural issues is probably because they are in an unsuitable environment that can’t meet their needs as an autistic person I can’t really see the school being a productive place for your child to achieve anything educationally

A 6 year old doesn't need a tutor. There are so many free resources available online for parents to support their children at home. When my kids were at that age, I would do extra work at home with them anyway. The class newletter/class dojo used to tell us what the class had been working on that week. Or just ask the teacher what topics they are doing and what area your son struggles with. It's easy to find resources to support them. BBC teach, BBC bitesize and Twinkl to name a few. Even the odd half an hour during the week can make a huge difference. My DS has SEN and did really well keeping up with the class, with a bit of support at home.

from what I’ve read all evidence is that pupils perform better when they’re sat with kids mixed abilities

Benefits who though? I’m sure it benefits the kids who are struggling but it’s unfair to the higher achieving, disciplined kids to be forced with someone who has behavioural issues.

You need to find out if the table is for kids who need most TA support because of their behaviour or attainment because it's unusual for the 2 to completely overlap (especially in the case of the girl with mutism)
In my experience as a parent, it's very common for children with behavioural issues to be sat next to well behaved children in the hopes that the good behaviour rubs off which is a crappy solution.
I don't see a problem with sets tbh. Some kids are going to be demoralised if they are struggling with writing a couple of sentences and the child sat opposite can write whole pages. I believe that research shows that mixed ability groups doesn't benefit everyone.

I’m aware that obviously the teacher doesn’t care about my son as much as I do. I’m not sorry that I want to advocate for my son. I know what terrible strain the teachers are under and wouldn’t blame them for doing something that makes their job easier for teaching the rest of the class. I know that teachers have a certain percentage of kids that need to pass certain tests and I can see how this could result in the focus being on the 95% of kids who stand a chance on passing the test

Teachers don't make choices that are easier for them. They make choices that support as many children to succeed as possible. They are usually as far from easy as it is possible to get. Easy choices never happen in my classroom.

Are you assuming it's a naughty table because your son is naughty?

Surely it's more likely that those are the children who need TA support - if there's one TA and the children are on five different tables it's not going to work.

This is crap I’m afraid.

Often children are grouped by the level
of support they need. Some children need to be sat with an adult to achieve anything. It sounds like your son does too. If he was sat randomly then he wouldn’t have the same amount of adult support and would also potentially be sat with something that can achieve much more than him in comparison. Far better to be sat with an adult that can support his learning. The opposite of being abandoned with all the ‘naughty’ children. You’re going to have a shit school experience unless you drop the attitude to the teacher. Far better to build a mutual supportive relationship based on respect.

This. You said “I care less about the kids who have high ability, and I care more about my son who perhaps doesn’t” but why would it make sense to move one child to a table to benefit him, but possibly limit the other 4 kids on that table?

Also, depending on activity, in my classroom many lessons are mixed ability. It won’t work for lots of the maths though as the children are so massively different in ability. You have no idea how often he is sat on ‘his table’.

The teacher won’t be trying to do what makes their life easier, they’ll be trying to give every child the support they need. If your son has a shorter attention span than others and he’s at a table with them, surely he’ll distract them and hinder their learning?

the teacher has done it this way to give your son the support he needs, not to ostracise him or lump him with other kids you feel he shouldn’t be with for no reason.

I’ve read that children placed in bottom set do worse than if they were in mixed abilities, I care less about the kids who have high ability

Dont you think the parents of the high ability children care as much about their child's education as you do?

‘I’ve read that children placed in bottom set do worse than if they were in mixed abilities, I care less about the kids who have high ability, and I care more about my son who perhaps doesn’t’

everyone is only interested in their own child. Is it any fairer for children to not teach their potential because of another child? No of course not. It really isn’t for other children’s education attainment to be lower so your child’s is higher.

its likely that the table your child is on is for children that need support, and the TA is likely to spend a good substantial portion of her time there.

I think I'd start the way your started your post, sort-of. "My son tells us the table he's on is the naughty table. I'm concerned that it's probably not helpful for him to be thinking that. Can you tell us more about how he is in the classroom and what can we all do to support him?"

This. I have a table where I have all my children together. It’s so I can do almost an extra little lesson and break the work down into easier chunks. I can scribe for 5 children at once without moving around the class.

Yes I do, and if they’re advocating for their children then I need to
advocate for my son. If I was a teacher I think I would do the same as my sons teacher has done from reading all the comments. But I have to advocate for my son, I totally understand the teacher is doing the best for the class, but my priority is what’s best for my son, not what’s best for the class. I don’t think the current arrangement is helping my son, but I’m just supposed to accept that and say it’s for the greater good.

Thank you