To think 6yr olds shouldn’t have a naughty table at school

[Charliebrow]

My 6 year old son has told us that at school his table is full of the naughty kids. It appears that the other kids on his table are the ones that seem to have behavioural problems and it’s clear his table is ‘bottom set’.
I have parents evening tomorrow and want to say something but don’t know what to say that doesn’t sound argumentative.
Everything I’ve read says all the evidence is that sets don’t work in primary school and are detrimental especially for the kids in the bottom set. However, sadly they are common place in the uk due to schools paying external education companies for resources which require kids to be set by ability. Our school uses twinkl.
I have ADHD (diagnosed recently) and daydreamed my way through school but managed to pull things out of the bag at secondary for exams, getting top grades at GCSE and a level in maths and science and going on to uni. I’m lucky that I was never streamed by ability until secondary school when I’d already demonstrated with SATs that I was good at maths so set 1.
i worry that my son has a higher ability than we and teachers realise and he’s being pigeon holed by being placed bottom set and also it’s affecting his confidence as he’s aware he’s on the naughty table.
Thanks for reading and for any help

What you are describing is not setting.

Setting in an educational context is where students in the same year group or grade are put into different classes with different teachers in different classrooms,

So for example, in a large primary school there might be three year 6 classes. They have PE, art, etc in their class groups, but are split by ability for maths, so the students physically change classroom.

It sounds like what is happening in your son's classroom is either he is on the table of children who need adult support, or the teacher has put them into smaller groups by ability.

Neither of those is setting.

I’m assuming it’s the naughty table because my son bemoaned “my table doesn’t get any merit marks because everyone on my table is naughty”

It would be crazy to have a "naughty table" because disruptive children tend to be split up and dotted evenly around the tables to stop them encouraging each other.

But yes, children who receive support and can be trusted to behave nicely may be bunched together so they have access to the TA as they work.

Ok so I meant they are grouped by ability. Everyone understands what I mean. But I won’t use that word at the parents evening thanks

Th problem is well behaved DC don't want to be held back by DC who misbehave. This is regardless of ability. I'd be asking why your DC is on that table. Does he sit still and listen to the teacher, allowing others around him to learn, or is he misbehaving?

When my son said everyone on his table
is naughty I asked if everyone on his table is naughty then does that mean that he naughty, he kept going on about how he isn’t naughty he does stuff independently and kept saying the word independently numerous times as he was talking. I didn’t think he would even know what this word meant but obviously the teacher is saying it a lot. I don’t know if anyone can deduce anything for that?

There is no such thing as a naughty table anymore. He will be on a table that gets extra support.

He doesn’t need a tutor.

I have ADHD and so does my son.

We played lots of sneakily educational games, the same as my parents did with me. Read to him daily, and let him read to you. If reading is an issue for him, take turns with the pages.

Card games like pontoon, and things like shut the box help with basic addition.

Do jigsaws together; bake. It all really helps.

Good luck. 💐

The teacher will be praising him for attempting things independently.

Thank you, we do read a lot. I think he’s good at reading, he knows all his sounds. However if he gets a word wrong even if it’s just cos he’s rushed it and i correct him he throws the book down and cries out that he’s “terrible at reading”

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Questions worth asking at parents' evening:

Do the children have different seats for different subjects?
(This can be a common thing to do in primary to give students a chance to build relationships within the class and work with different people)

Do you regularly change the groups that students are working in?
(So sometimes the teacher will do mixed ability table groups for one subject and ability tables for another as it one topic is easier to handle mixed ability while the science topic for example would be easier in ability groups)

Is my son regularly needing TA support in order to complete his work? If yes, you have a problem

I'd strongly suggest staying away from the academic research about mixed ability teaching, it's complex and different types of students benefit from it at different times it really isn't as simple as mixed ability is better.

Octavia, halfway through an MA in education

Thank you, perfect!

What a shitty ableist comment.

I'm shocked at the idea of a selectively mute child ( a child with a disability in other words) being considered as naughty. I hope the teacher isn't really giving that impression?

@MotherEarthisaTerf

Cool how exactly is what I’ve said wrong?

I'll give you a different perspective op

My DC was on a table other parents speculated was a "top table" last year.

It was 5 rather able kids who were well behaved & pretty good at getting on with work independently. They got a lot of merits. It meant they got far, far less time with the teacher & TA to the extent that a few issues arose during the year that weren't noticed. We accepted it, because we knew the teacher was in pieces trying to support the higher than average proportion of kids in the class. My DC didn't get the full opportunity to reach their potential to be honest. They basically coasted through the year and developed a few bad habits. But fundamentally - they are fine, because actually they could do well regardless.

Is that the sort of table you'd like your DC on? Do you think your DC would do well there?

Your DC is likely getting extra support and trust me, it's a good thing

How would the teacher be giving that impression?

I have adhd and had selective mutism when I was younger. I was in the top sets but would often sit with sen kids so we could share support staff - but I was set the same work as the kids on the g&t table.

you’ve suggested children with behavioural difficulties would not be high achieving.

you’re suggesting children with behavioural difficulties are not disciplined.

the implication that sitting neurotypical children with disabled ones is ‘forcing them’ as if it was an unpleasant request.

the notion you’re implying that disabled children should sit far away from ones who aren’t disabled.

and also - the shitty tone throughout your post that children with behavioural difficulties are ‘lesser’.

if you are being goady on purpose - then great, you got me. If you’re being ignorant then try some hard thinking.

As someone pointed out, setting and ability grouping are two different things.

I know you acknowledged that this was an error, but the reading you have done relates to setting, which is not what is going on in this classroom. There is indeed research that suggests setting is not beneficial for children and puts a ceiling on their learning.

I can't stress enough, however, that ability grouping does not come under this research.

She may not have, but the DS seems to think it's a naughty table and I wonder where he has got that impression from, did the teacher say something about it being a naughty table ? Or one of the other kids? Or maybe it's just a conclusion that DS has come to by himself .

@MotherEarthisaTerf

You’re being deliberately dense. I just Googled “main symptoms of ADHD” and these come up:

• inattentiveness (difficulty concentrating and focusing)
• hyperactivity and impulsiveness

So exactly the behaviour I described? It’s not the kids fault they have this but it’s a diagnoses based on behaviour & it’s unfair on more quiet children to have to deal with disruptive behaviour.

My sister has bipolar disorder, it’s not her fault but I’m not “ableist” if I sometimes can’t be around her due to her behaviour.

@MotherEarthisaTerf , @Lucybee0 hasn’t said anything wrong. If you have a child at a table who gets distracted after 20 minutes, how is that fair for that child to distract students who otherwise would be getting on with their work?

I think it makes sense if you are working at different ability levels. The kids who are most able will probably need a lighter touch. We had them in my primary as well. I wouldn’t be upset about DD being on that table but if I’m being brutally honest I would be thinking of how to improve her skills so she can move off it. Also streaming isn’t static, when I was at school there were pupils moved up and down sets depending on how they were doing.

I was on the “top” table at primary (very average adult) and my teacher basically gave us work and left us to it so she could attend to other tables. If your son needs more support moving tables is not going to help him at all.