to think it's not appropriate for school trip to include a visit to a bullring?

[Merula]

Interested to hear your views. Our school have announced a trip to Madrid, which will include a visit to a bullring. Obviously it will not be while a bull fight is occurring, but there is a fee to visit the bullring, so in effect, by paying for my child to attend, we will be supporting bullfighting. A previous trip to Spain included a visit to a dolphinarium. Would you be ok with this or would you question the appropriateness with the school?

Am sure the bullring does put on a nice tour for school kids but not out of the goodness of their hearts.

It's an income stream for a business.

If this was just about debating pros and cons the tour bus could drive past, have a look at the building and the teacher could talk about it.

It's part of the culture and history. An unsavoury part, Yes, but you can't just cancel and ignore everything you don't agree with. Why not go and learn about the building, the history, the architecture and then I'm sure they'll have a better understanding on which to debate why bullfighting is wrong.

I've been to a bull ring, not when a bullfight was going on. It's part of history, and I didn't feel I was betraying my principles (I didn't have to pay). My Spanish friend who is passionately opposed to bullfighting came with me.

I would be ok with her going if it was free.

We “cancelled” and banned fox hunting in this country because people didn’t agree with it. If fact we banned bear fighting, badger baiting and dog fighting too. We campaign to end international whaling and the fur trade.

So of course you can not go to things. Coupled with this there is an entry fee which will be going to support the venue where this event happens. It would be like me saying I don’t support whaling, but here let me buy some diesel for your boat…

if they want to learn from a cultural POV they can see the building from outside, use books, online resources and videos. There’s plenty of ways to learn that doesn’t financially support the event

I think this is ok from a historical perspective to be honest and I'm known for my strong views on animal rights!

This is what I'm trying to get across. By paying a fee, I am funding bullfighting.

So you're happy to contribute towards bullfighting?

I would refuse to pay. I agree with your feelings on this and my DS wouldnt want to visit either. What an awful place to go sight-seeing to on a school trip...

@Haydenn - I wonder if anyone on here would refuse to send their children to Alleyn's School, which was founded by Edward Alleyn an actor who owned the Bear Pit on Bankside, and was ‘Master of the King's Bulls, Bears and Mastiff Dogs'? The money he made from these partly brought him the wealth which enabled him to purchase the Manor of Dulwich for his retirement. The school's drama activities are still carried out under the name of The Bear Pit.

It's a shame there cannot be a compromise whereby the group go to a ring where you only have bloodless acrobatic bullfighting - no capes, no bulls die.
The recortadors celebrate the tradition without the bloodshed by death-defying somersaults instead.

I would allow DC to go as I wouldn’t want them to be left out and it’s too late to change the itinerary BUT I would also write to the school asking that in future planning of school they take into account the ethical aspects of their trips. Say that this year parents are being asked for money that will be used to pay a bullring, i.e. to support bullfighting, a sport banned in Britain and incompatible with modern British values. Say this is an inappropriate use of school trip funds. Also say it is clear that this is not a one off, as a previous trip went to the dolphinarium, and clearly there is no consideration of ethics during the planning of school outings. Ask what message this sends to the children: that the school both condones and organises trips to animal abusers as ‘entertainment’ and remind the school that they are responsible for the moral and spiritual upbringing of the children during the trip and that their approach on this to date has been disappointing.

I’d be having words with the school over this and the dolphinarium, tbh. It’s appalling that this kind of animal cruelty is still being promoted in any manner. If you/your child is paying to go to these places, you’re supporting them financially to remain open and continue these horrific practices whether you like it or not. It would be a hard No from me.

@AnnaMasse perhaps a better example would be European kids on a school trip to England.

As a planned activity they are taken to see one of the remaining hunts that uses the loophole to carry on foxhunting. School argues they should go as hunting is integral to English culture.

Personally I'd be pretty annoyed that a school trip company was thinking 'how can I help a bunch of teens learn about England?' and came up with hunting, which is totally irrelevant to almost all of the population, and incredibly unpopular.

If bullfighting is legal there I don't see an issue. If you object strongly enough to not want your child going to visit the arena then you should question whether Spain is a suitable place for them to visit at all. Bullfighting is part and parcel of Spanish culture - it would be like a foreigner coming here despite them having a moral objection to football. If you despise something, don't support a country that supports it.

@AnnaMagnani - maybe. Alleyn's offers a number of scholarships provided by the Saddlers' Company, arguably a guild that made its money from skinning murdered cows?

The building is incredible. So much artwork inside it. It's almost like a museum-art gallery. They aren't going to a bull fight. they are going on a tour of a very famous building

Its spectacular and opens debate which serves educationally.

I hate kids being kept in boxes and being told what to think. Let them decide for themselves

Unless you're a vegan then you're paying to support animal cruelty everyday anyway so why does it matter?

P.S I'm not vegan

I live in Madrid. As far as I know children are not allowed to watch bullfights. They will most likely be just visiting the building and any exhibition going on there (last weekend it hosted the chocolate festival!)

I would have an issue if a bear was fighting next week, but given the fact the poor things have already popped their clogs I can’t muster a strong objection to how they made their money. I can objectively to funding something that WILL actually happen in the future though

It will probably be turned into a shopping centre in time, like the one in Barcelona.

No I wouldn't be happy with that either OP(nor the dolphinarium). It's a horrible and vile part of Spanish culture (albeit small percentage)? Well so is fox hunting/deer stalking over here and both are cruel as feck.
Where they visiting in Spain? Perhaps the children could visit a galgos rescue centre. I know the workers there are very keen to spread the cause of the Spanish galgo; thousands ds are mistreated every and abandoned after the hunting session is over.

Is it a compulsory trip?

I presume you have the option for your child not to go if you feel strongly about it rather than kicking up a fuss and potentially ruining it for others that want to experience the trip?

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I did exactly this school trip! It was fascinating. It was from a historical and cultural perspective. We all learnt a lot. They are not promoting the ideology behind it.

But by giving the building another income stream, you might be helping the bullfighting to stop. Many of these old bullrings have stunning architecture, etc, that locals want to preserve. If they could get enough money out of tours of the building, it's an incentive to stop the fighting, but keep the history.
If people only pay to see the fights, that is the only thing that will happen there. But if bullrings are repurposed as sites of historical interest,the buildings are retained,somebody gets to keep their job and before you know it, there's no fighting any more, because there's a more lucrative option.