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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

XL Bully Around Children

186 replies

Popcornlassie28 · 07/11/2023 14:06

Hi,

My SIL has decided to buy a XL bully dog (yes I know they are in the process of being banned by the government).

I was bitten by a bully type dog as a child when I was round a friend’s house having a play date so I’m naturally on edge about this.

I have two small children (and she has an older school age child) and I’ve expressed I’m not comfortable with the children visiting the house with the dog there but she is welcome to visit us here.

They think I’m being OTT and said that the dog is fine and not all are aggressive. She is refusing to muzzle or put the dog away as she said it’s a pet that needs to be socialised with people and putting the dog away will add to the issue.

Seeing all the news about these dogs at the moment makes me think I’m being responsible as one bite can kill and be devastating.

I know it’s a nature verses nurture debate and people think it’s how they are raised and not their breed but I don’t know enough about this breed to comment.

Am I being unreasonable to not allow the children over?

OP posts:
Greybluewhite · 07/11/2023 17:49

Another one here with a degree in canine behaviour. I work with dogs on a daily basis.

Not a chance would I allow my children around one, no exceptions.

Beginningless · 07/11/2023 17:50

YANBU in the slightest. There’s a good reason they are being banned. One in our local park got spooked by one of my kids crying, and it started snarling and lunging at her, honestly it looked/sounded like it wanted to kill her and I don’t know what would have happened had the guy not been able to manage it on the lead. I feel sorry for the owners of gentle XLs but there are far too many risks.

Odingodof · 07/11/2023 17:52

Op countless experts have backed up that this breed has an innate built in prey drive that you can't train out of it.they have killed their owners, children in their family, friends children.
. They can't be trusted. I would also be absolutely furious.

Luckyduc · 07/11/2023 17:53

You need to develop the attitude of My kids, My rules!
It doesn't matter if everyone thought you were over the top, your job is to protect your children and nobody 💯 can say a dog won't attack, no matter the breed. Now, soke dogs are nippy and bite but can be handled but these are weighty beasts that's adults can barely handle. It just takes one wrong move or bite and your kid is dead and there's no bringing your child back just because you SIL says it's safe.
I'd also be wondering where she bought it anyway as many that have been removed have been for a reason. She will have to muzzle it by the end of the year otherwise they can take the dog away and destroy it under new laws. She sounds daft.

HerMammy · 07/11/2023 17:53

@Whatdidtheromanseverdoforus
Is she aware that if it escapes and takes itself for a jolly ( like they often do) it’ll be shot?
Get a grip, dogs have been exempted for 30 years, none who escape are automatically shot!!
The hysteria and ignorance on this forum is ridiculous.
OP if your SIL has this pup the best thing she can do is train and socialise and muzzle train as she will have to adhere to exemption rules. Her property will need to be secure: 6ft fence.
The dog will not be able to be bred, rehomed and if put into rescue will be euthanised.
I hope she is fully committed to this puppy for the next 12/14 years.

Dogs Trust have posted a good info thread for owners

www.dogstrust.org.uk/dog-advice/life-with-your-dog/at-home/american-bully-xl#:~:text=It%20covers%20all%20dogs%20including,within%20the%20Dangerous%20Dogs%20Act.

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · 07/11/2023 17:55

I can’t believe anyone could be so dim. She has children ffs.

Mischance · 07/11/2023 17:55

I don't think you need to be fuming. You just say a very very firm NO to visiting them at all. End of.

Your life will be complete without visiting this woman. And you need to keep your children safe.

MotherEarthisaTerf · 07/11/2023 17:57

What on earth is wrong with her?

why would she choose to buy a dog she must have neutered and muzzled in public at all times?! I know she won’t plan to buy a dog and rehome it but it can’t even be rehomed legally. She’ll need to prove she has a secure garden etc etc.

there are other issues obviously but of all the things I would pay cash for - a muzzled dog is not one of them!!! Why purchase aggro just to get an unpopular dog. People are idiots.

MarieG10 · 07/11/2023 17:59

This is an extreme unpredictable and dangerous breed. Do not go near or let your children near it. She must be mad or stupid

EtiennePalmiere · 07/11/2023 17:59

Surely this isn't real ? How old is her child ? I would call child protection on my own sister if she did this.

MotherEarthisaTerf · 07/11/2023 18:00

The government are actually paying to put these dogs down. Why would she want to buy one including all the red tape??

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/prepare-for-the-ban-on-xl-bully-dogs

Following a concerning rise in attacks and fatalities caused by XL Bully dogs, the government has added this breed to the list of dogs banned under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991.
To help current owners adapt to the new laws, these changes will come into force in 2 stages.
From 31 December 2023 it will be against the law to:

  • sell an XL Bully dog
  • abandon an XL Bully dog
  • give away an XL Bully dog
  • breed from an XL Bully dog
  • have an XL Bully in public without a lead and muzzle
From 1 February 2024 it will be a criminal offence to own an XL Bully in England and Wales unless you have a Certificate of Exemption for your dog. You will need to adhere to strict rules such as microchipping your dog and keeping it on a lead and muzzled when in public. You will also need to neuter your dog. If your dog is less than one year old on 31 January 2024, it must be neutered by 31 December 2024. If your dog is older than one year old on 31 January 2024, it must be neutered by 30 June 2024. We recommend that you arrange for your dog to be neutered as soon as possible to ensure that you meet these deadlines. Alternatively, if you are an owner of an XL Bully, you may decide not to keep it, in which case you should take your dog to a registered vet to euthanise it. There will be a compensation scheme towards the cost of euthanasia if you choose this option.

Prepare for the ban on XL Bully dogs

What XL Bully dog owners, vets and rehoming centres need to do to prepare for the ban.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/prepare-for-the-ban-on-xl-bully-dogs

triballeader · 07/11/2023 18:01

I grew up with a mix of bull terriers, SBT and bull mastiffs. I love bullies, appreciate what they need to stay healthy, happy and sane. Heck I have even taken on special case rehomes from rescues BUT….Even I am worried sick over XL type bullies.

The ones I have encountered have been temperamentally unstable, reactive and yes I suspect that’s down to serious amounts of idiotic inbreeding for profit rather than concern for a dogs eventual family. I do not mix my rescues with small children. it would not be fair to either the dog nor the child. There is not a snowballs chance in hell of me thinking most adults let alone children should be around Xl bully’s.

YANBU your sister is.

Original poster
Popcornlassie28 · 07/11/2023 18:14

@EtiennePalmiere Unfortunately real. Her son is 7. My two are 3 (nearly 4) and 2.

OP posts:
Unexpectedlysinglemum · 07/11/2023 18:14

Yanbu she is bvu

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 07/11/2023 18:16

SayingwhatIreallythink · 07/11/2023 14:18

Your sil is stupid. The reason we are in this situation is because most people who choose these dogs are stupid.

I agree

CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau · 07/11/2023 18:21

@FooFighter99 that is the problem, as my grandmother would say you can’t legislate for what others think. I’m personally extremely comfortable around horses, having dealt with them my whole life, but I understand people being discomfited by them if they’re unfamiliar and bearing in mind that a horse can eg break your toe by stepping on it. Similarly my boyfriend had a badly trained rescue dog which hadn’t been to the lesson about not jumping on me and proceeded to jump on me. I weighed less than the dog and was terrified. Luckily the dog had a fabulous nature (Rhodesian ridgeback x pit bull) and didn’t hurt me but he could have ripped my face off if he had wanted to.

Mackeroo · 07/11/2023 18:24

She's being totally stupid. I'd be so worried about her son.

TerrysNeapolitan · 07/11/2023 18:28

They are being banned for a reason. That is all you need to know.

SeatonCarew · 07/11/2023 18:30

I am a dog lover and very experienced at rehoming rescues. Your SIL is totally batshit.

Does she have a track record in being "controversial". showing off, or a background of criminal behaviour?

Is she prepared to pay for her bad decision with somebody else's life, or her own?

wannabetraveler · 07/11/2023 18:33

slore · 07/11/2023 15:22

"It's not the breed it's the owner" is such a moronic thing to say. XL bullies are bred from pit bulls, a breed designed initially for bull baiting then for dog fighting. They were bred to kill.

As such, XL bullies and all other breeds in the pit bull family have the following traits as standard (not all individuals belonging to these breeds but these are the expected typical traits)
:

  • A high prey drive.
  • Impulsive aggression.
  • They bite to kill: they latch and shake and don't let go. They go for the head and neck because their intent is to do maximum damage.
  • Tenacity: they will keep going until the job is finished. This is to ensure they kept fighting through the pain of injuries. Tenacity also results in bully breeds destroying houses and furniture.
  • A heightened fight or flight instinct, making them neurotic.
  • Minimal body language: they were bred to not give visual warnings about their attacks, to gain an advantage over their opponents. This leads to "but he's so sweet!" incidents: bullies often won't show you if they're not sweet.
  • Very large litters: because of the high death rate in dog fighting - and also puppies being killed by their own mothers and littermates - large litters were necessary to replace the losses. This is why their population has exploded so rapidly.
  • Very wide mouths, for a bigger bite and to continue to take in air while biting for a long time.

None of this is correctable by training. You CANNOT train away genetics.

There is a reason why dog fighters do not fight with German Shepherds or Great Danes: it's not just size and strength, it's personality traits. Collie pups try to herd with no training, bully pups try to fight.

All owners can do is hope that their individual dog really is as sweet as they seem, rather than just not broadcasting violent thoughts and feelings as is typical for fighting breeds. You cannot tell the difference between a sweet XL who will never harm a fly, and an XL with the characteristic of scarce body language who will one day appear to catastrophically "turn" without warning.

This is an excellent post; I wish it could be posted on every thread where someone is considering buying one of these dogs.

Cheesecakefiend · 07/11/2023 18:38

This is going to sound rude because it is, but only people who are not very bright get these dogs. Stupid people cannot be reasoned with so the only thing you can do is to never go into her home again while she has this dog.

jays · 07/11/2023 18:38

I genuinely think anyone who has a child around a dog like that should be prosecuted.

Doio · 07/11/2023 18:40

My sister has a Staffordshire bull terrier but it’s cross breed with something bigger and not full staffie, therefore it meets XL bully criteria and they are acting accordingly to register and insure but still keeping him.

They have a baby and they’re chilled and say they trust their dog completely. He hasn’t shown signs of aggression towards the baby and or anyone else but one time I did go to stroke it and it growled at me. Would this be enough for anyone to keep themselves/DC away from the dog, even though it’s not a classic characteristic XL bully?

Cheesecakefiend · 07/11/2023 18:44

Doio · 07/11/2023 18:40

My sister has a Staffordshire bull terrier but it’s cross breed with something bigger and not full staffie, therefore it meets XL bully criteria and they are acting accordingly to register and insure but still keeping him.

They have a baby and they’re chilled and say they trust their dog completely. He hasn’t shown signs of aggression towards the baby and or anyone else but one time I did go to stroke it and it growled at me. Would this be enough for anyone to keep themselves/DC away from the dog, even though it’s not a classic characteristic XL bully?

If they say they trust their dog entirely then they're irresponsible and deluded dog owners sorry. No dog can be trusted entirely around a child.

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