Trans/pride flag in children's stickers

[timeforacoffeebreak]

This was included in a pack of squishmallow stickers... why???
AIBU or is this totally wrong ??

Some very misogynistic terminology in use there for women who are concerned about the impact of this ideology on our rights and safety and that of our daughters.

I'm not sure paranoia is the right phrase either, children are being harmed by trans women or men claiming to be trans women in what should be single sex spaces. Or don't Katy Dolotowski's victims matter? Just collateral damage that some hysterical women inconveniently bring up, hey?

Well, at least I am not ignorant of the facts of biology, or of the impossibility of changing from one sex to another.

I used to be sympathetic to trans people, @Tandora - I wasn’t willing to give up the lone seat at the table that women have fought for for so many years, but I was prepared to budge up and make space for trans people. I would have supported a call for third spaces/unisex spaces alongside single sex provision of loos, hospital wards, prisons, changing rooms etc - but that was not good enough for the loudest TRAs - nothing less than complete submission would do. Women, in particular MUST give up their safe spaces, their right not to see penises in their intimate spaces, their language, their sporting achievements, the scholarships and schemes aimed at encouraging more women and girls into business and STEM subjects.

We must accept that woman is not a factual, biological reality, it is just a fantasy, a feeling, it’s long hair, make up, frilly dresses - it is to be defined purely in terms of toxic and sexist stereotypes that women have fought to free themselves from.

We must accept that these outdated, sexist stereotypes are actually modern and forward thinking, and that they can - nay must - be used to gaslight kids into thinking they were born in the wrong body and need to submit themselves to medical and surgical treatments that will render them sterile, probably incapable of sexual satisfaction, and will mean a lifetime dependent on medicine and surgery.

What would be truly modern would be to say that anyone can wear what they want, choose any activity, sport, hobby, hair style, make up style, and that these choices should NOT be used to force them into a narrow box marked either male or female. Why can’t a girl like short hair, sports, science, and hate skirts, pink and make up without being told this means she is actually a boy? If a boy wants to play with dolls or wear dresses or pink or make up, surely it is progressive to tell him that these choices are fine, and don’t make him any less male.

My choices make me me. They don’t change the fact of my biology.

I want real trans women and trans men to be as safe as I want women to be.

@justteanbiscuits I want all humans to be safe but that shouldn't be at the cost of another group of humans.

We can't tell which males are safe and which aren't which is why we have single sex spaces to keep all males out. I am sorry that this includes trans women but it has to because there isn't a true trans or nice male test.

Otherwise you are putting the males first. Every time. And telling girls and women that our safety isn't as important.

Ok - apologies in that case.. I just can't see why you would get worked up about a sticker that lots of kids won't recognise... and if they do, then they are already aware of what it means, so I can't see how it would be a problem.
But I guess that was what you were asking!

As a data nerd, I look at the actual statistics.

There hasn't been an increase in attacks on women in women only spaces. If a man wants access to a women only spaces to have access to women there are much easier ways for him. A man sneaking into a space when there is a lone woman there is the most common way.

My point is that there are predatory men who will do what ever it takes to get access to women. Yes, some (very very few) will use pretending to be a transwoman as a way. But there are men that pretend to be a plumber to do this (a case in last couple of years of a man pretending to be a plumber to get access to a womens refuge springs to mind) and we don't vilify all plumbers.

Oh good the “men gonna man and attack women anyway so why bother trying to keep them out” argument

I'm pretty sure the statistics for penis to vagina rape in prison of female prisoners from other inmates has gone up.

Burglars are going to burgle your house if they want to, but people still lock their doors and have ring doorbells. It's called dah dah daaaah... safeguarding measures.

A bit like you know, sex based spaces. We can't tell the harmful males from the non-harmful males, so we try and keep them all out. Like the men in my family, I believe they wouldn't harm anyone, still shouldn't be in spaces not meant for them, even if they woke up tomorrow and identified as a woman.

The issue in your crap example isn't that they were plumbers, it's that they were men.

No I'm not. I just don't go round classifying men into different groups when I am talking generally.

Men are men.

now there may be occasions where it is necessary to describe a particular man such as an old man or a gay man or a transwomen

I'm not denying that men who like to dress outside the sexist stereotypes of men's clothing or whatever else they do that they think gives them the rights to women's spaces exist. I'm just saying that they are still just men.

Transwomen and transmen exist, of course they do. Where we probably diverge in our thoughts is our understanding of why someone wants to be/claims to be/ think they are actually by uttering a few words magically transformed into the opposite sex.

How is the data to be trusted when men claiming to be women are recorded as women in the criminal justice system, the NHS and other public institutions?

Which is so far from what I have actually said. But sure, believe that's what I said.

And carry on crying out that trans women are the problem. In the mean time those predatory makes can carry on as they wish because no one is looking at them.

YABU
Hth

Exactly. The data is now skewed as male offenders who say they are women without any GRC or the like are recorded as women, especially for sexual crimes. I work in this field and it boils my blood.

Allowing trans woman access to women's spaces hasn't increased attacks on women in women's only spaces. Whether they've been attacked by men or women. Which is why what ever their gender is recorded as doesn't matter.

My point is that there are predatory men who will do what ever it takes to get access to women. Yes, some (very very few) will use pretending to be a transwoman as a way.

Some "transwomen" just are predatory men, they're not "pretending" anything. We have single sex spaces for the privacy, dignity and safety of women and girls when they are vulnerable as in undressing or sleeping etc. It's not just about not being raped, it's about an environment that is not hostile to women and girls, where they are not constantly exposed to the male gaze.

Where they are not constantly sexually harassed by men.

How would you know, if they are recorded as being by a female? And no attacks need to happen for women to have the right to be in a space free of a penised male.

Before this madness, a man in a women's locker room eying naked women would have no excuses. Now they just need to say they are a woman, and they will be shielded from consequences with that claim. Women are being indoctrinated not to complain about it for fear of being called transphobes. But they are still harmed, either through voyeurism or leaving something they otherwise enjoy doing. And the harm to women goes unreported. So frankly the "data" means fuck all. It has no more accuracy than all the other data on harm to women by men - women have given up reporting it because they know fuck all will happen to those men, whereas the women may well end up ruining their lives and facing even more as a consequence if they speak up.

Because I didn't break the data down by gender. It was attacks on women in women only spaces.

Kate Dolatowski anyone?

Where is your evidence that tw are less safe in male spaces because despite the fact that you are desperate to deny it women and girls have been harmed by trans women in women's single sex spaces and just one being harmed is enough to tell me that you think that women are less important than trans women.

If there is evidence that TW have been harmed in male spaces I will stand side by side with you to advocate for third spaces.

That way everyone's needs (to be safe) can be met.

But I strongly expect this won't be good enough for you as what TW really want is validation and they won't get that if they can't make women uncomfortable in our facilities.

Trans rights activism is frequently misogynistic and many of the males who participate in it are deeply resentful of and hostile towards women. Women need our own space to be comfortable and feel safe, with our own boundaries intact, we're not NPCs in male lives.

@justteanbiscuits if you love your stats so much how many transwomen are attacked in male spaces on the basis of being trans? And again, no attacks need to happen. It's about dignity and privacy. I don't want a penised male in my woman only space, harmful to me or that (still waiting to hear how we can tell).

*otherwise

Because I didn't break the data down by gender. It was attacks on women in women only spaces.

Something that as pp said, has to be reported by women and recorded by police as having happened. If women don't believe they will be taken seriously, they won't report.