The Government thinks I am an extremist

[cakeorwine]

I am a member of Republic.
Republic are a pressure group that wants to see an end to the Monarchy.
The Monarchy is an institution in the UK.
I will try ti undermine it.

That makes me an extremist.

Revealed: plan to brand anyone ‘undermining’ UK as extremist | UK security and counter-terrorism | The Guardian

Government officials have drawn up deeply controversial proposals to broaden the definition of extremism to include anyone who “undermines” the country’s institutions and its values, according to documents seen by the Observer.

You have a right to protest, nothing wrong in protests. It becomes a problem when people think their opinions are the correct and refuse to accept differing views.
Live and let live

in their defence they were only doing it to put hard brexit through so we could take back democratic control of our parliament and regain our sovereignty. so unelected EU officials didn't control our country... unlike our very much democratically elected current PM.

The war criminal!

You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to disagree.

You are not entitled to disrupt my way of life because of your beliefs. You go your way and I go mine. Live and let live.

There are plenty of other countries in the world you may find more accommodating to your beliefs

You can also be a socialist - and a member of, say, the Socialist Alliance - and labelled as such. Or at the other end of the spectrum, marching with Britain First, a fascist group. All of these groups would potentially 'undermine the country's institutions and its values', no matter the flavour, and yes, by being a member you are flagging yourself not necessarily as a threat but as a potential source of discontent. I'm really not sure why you're surprised by this.

how will that make any dfifference ? the next party or same party depending on the public could still use the same ideas

various protestors glueing their hands, holding up traffic etc have contributed to this outcome

I guarantee you don't see the irony in what you've just said.

I'll sum up what you've just posted:
We both can have our opinions.
But your not allowed to disrupt my life, with your opinion
Oh, and if you disagree, fuck off and live sonewhere else.

Its really funny 😁

You are perfectly entitled to speak your views and to peaceful protest, as we all are,

I think it's how you protest - in this case undermine the monarchy - that makes the difference. As with Stop Oil, marching and banners and advertising campaigns are fine.

Closing the M25 by glueing themselves to a gantry, damaging GDP and putting a load of other people in danger is not and would eventually get them banned.

There are plenty of other countries in the world you may find more accommodating to your beliefs

Can you name some. I mean a lot. You said plenty so shouldn't have problem.

And this is how the Tories keep getting in, the "they're all the same" argument (sic).

I imagine this has been motivated by the more extreme elements from the pro-Palestinian protests. It’s a strange one because the government initially said that there is enough legislation to cover things like hate speech ,incitement to violence, racism, anti-semitism and public disorder issues. The police have been arguing they need new legislation to actually prosecute some behaviours (I don’t know what exactly the problem is).

I’d be a bit worried about it because what exactly defines extremism? Obviously people walking around with pictures of paraglider on their backs are glorifying terrorism, that’s straightforward . Or holding a swastika at a pro-Palestinian rally could be seen as incitement.

If I’m being completely frank I think the police are basically not sure how to define extremism in dealing with behaviour/preaching that is islamist in nature. I would have thought clarification of what extremism is would be more helpful than new legislation.

From the party who have made it their mission to undermine the NHS? Really?

Tory Extremists.

Another Republic member here. Been one for 18 years. I'm absolutely furious. This government are beyond vile.

"You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to disagree.

You are not entitled to disrupt my way of life because of your beliefs. You go your way and I go mine. Live and let live.

There are plenty of other countries in the world you may find more accommodating to your beliefs"

Ah, the if you dont like this country - leave argument. So elegant.

Goodness - if people have/had that attitude then nothing will or have ever changed in this country.

“The Government has defined extremism in the Prevent strategy as: “vocal or active opposition to fundamental British values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs. We also include in our definition of extremism calls for the death of members of our armed forces”. Prevent Guidance

So would joining an organisation- Republic, Yorkshire Party?

Still have an established Church of England with prayers and Bishops making laws. So what about being a Catholic or another religion or atheist? Yes seems unlikely but…

Also I support PR. Am I in trouble for that too?

The last time there was a push for something like this in schools, the line was that schools could not use material from any organisation which advocated breaking the law. At the time, the Government was advocating breaking international law "for specific and limited reasons"... I did write to my MP to point this out but only got a form response.

I thought tolerance was a British value.

But it looks like it's only the Tories that have to be tolerated.

My last prevent training had a case study about environmental extremism.

I suppose any cause can become extreme and then expressed in a dangerous way. I really thjnk the government shoukd only be looking at things that become dangerous.

But the way recent laws have been drafted and the way the government talks, i really can see people getting into trouble for expressing views in a peaceful way.

Being labelled as an extremist can have consequences.

We had some discussion of Prevent at work - there is a duty on certain professions to report extremists to Prevent.

So should Republicans be reported to Prevent by their employer?

he left British politics almost 20 years ago, I think?

This is an interesting example.

Having an awareness that some people disagree with the concept of monarchy really shouldn't "ruin" anyone's day. It's not necessary to maintain a fiction of total unity in order to celebrate the things you want to celebrate. Banning republican protests on days of monarchist celebration is totalitarian and evil. Whatever your views on any topic, it should be possible to entertain the notion that some people disagree with you without that being a source of grief/upset/spoiling your joy.

Indeed it's really important that it is possible to protest in this way especially on days when the opposite view is being celebrated. If 10,000,000 people are joyfully celebrating the king and 50,000 people take part in a republican protest, you can be comfortably sure that republicanism is a minority view - the freedom of speech means that the opposing view can't hide the (relatively low) level of support it has. If all such protests are banned and gradually over the years the number who come out to celebrate dwindle from 10,000,000 to 5,000,000 to 1,000,000 but it's illegal to have a counter-event so who knows if that would be growing or whether it's just apathy, and then you are actively fuelling the flames of those who want a change - those who are voiceless, oppressed and silenced would always find a way to spread that discontent and you would actually be hastening the onset of the revolution you are overtly against.

Charles is King by the consent of the people. The majority of people are pro-monarchy. If that dramatically changed and 95% of people were republicans and only 5% wanted a monarchy then it would be right and proper to change, and I am sure Charles himself would agree with that. If popular views about republicanism do grow then peaceful protest is a legitimate outlet for freedom of speech to communicate that, but the size of the protest may equally inspire a revival of pro-monarchy sentiment too. Freedom of speech doesn't make either side more or less "correct". You need freedom of speech in order to highlight the falsehoods in your opposition's argument. Obviously no decision would be made on the basis of suze of protest, that's not how democracy works, but if its clear that public opinion is drifting that way it would be appropriate to start campaigning for a referendum on the topic - I would expect that the terms of any such referendum should be along the lines that the question would only be considered settled if the majority was at least 67% to 33% and that any majority less than that should trigger a 5 year process of reforming, improving and making the status quo more acceptable befire running the referendum again - we should never again have a referendum where a majority of a percent or two can impose an enormous change.

Speaking of referendums, would Brexiteers have counted as extremists if this definition had been active in 2015?

😂

@cakeorwine

Being labelled as an extremist can have consequences.

We had some discussion of Prevent at work - there is a duty on certain professions to report extremists to Prevent.

So should Republicans be reported to Prevent by their employer?

Indeed, being labelled an extremist can have consequences - not only for you, but for your family if they work in certain professions or for particular companies. And as I said, extremism is a spectrum. Why should Republicans can excluded? Are they special in some way? Why should any employer treat you differently from a member of another protest group?

I understand you don't believe Republic is extremist. However, the Government at least has clearly identified elements of Republic that way, as they have other groups.