We are not set up for electric vehicles in this country

[Pollyannaatemyjelly]

We have an electric vehicle. We tend not to do too many long journeys but today it was inevitable. We have visit a very popular destination via major motorways but there is not one fast charger available on our route. I've just stopped on the M5 on what is supposed to be a dual charger (so more than one vehicle can charge) but it's not working. I've had to wait 20 minutes for the vehicle next to me to charge before I can even begin to charge mine. There is no chance this county can become all electric when the infrastructure is so poor.

timetochangethering

We bought our used EV a few years ago for £13,000. It’s old so the range is one of the lowest but it’s good enough for us.

I hardly think that net zero targets can be dismissed as ‘emotive propaganda’. Yes there are other environmental concerns with EVs but these are far outstripped by the benefits to the environment of not burning fossil fuels.

no, there is no joined up plan but how can there be when senior politicians (and their family + friends) have a personal interest in maintaining the wealth derived from oil and gas. There are one or two anti-EV stories in the right wing rags each week. I wonder why….

I wonder if mumsnet was around for the past 120 years there'd be thread after thread of people complaining about the change from horse and cars to ICE cars, boats to aeroplanes, letters to email, etc, etc.

I'd imagine so, some people just hate change.

@annahay yes. Same here. Street lights go off at 1am to save money.

@TheHoover But in many cases, electric vehicles never pay back the carbon footprint of their production (particularly those used for city=based use with low mileage) - so, it is disingenuous for them to be pushed as part of the rush for 'net zero' if the negative environmental impact of their production and disposal is in fact not offset significantly by a lower carbon footprint.

@BottleShipDown - given that you are "very risk averse '' make sure you are properly aware of the early signs of thermal runaway in the battery cells - as you may have very little time if this happens (popping noises etc). Obviously the chance of it happening is very low - but best to be aware of the dangers...get well away from the vehicle if you are ever unfortunate enough to be involved in a collision.

Sorry. Wasn’t suggesting they were influenced by conspiracy theories. Just shared that to explain why I fact check this friend! I don’t fact check most of my friends! 😂

The articles you posted are actually not that heavy in detail but do state clearly that EVs are less likely to catch fire in the first place. It also says that the risks highlighted about EV fires would also, mostly, apply to petrol cars. So jury is out even in the two articles you posted.

In my research I couldn’t find any robust information about the intensity of the fires etc so can’t comment on that. I can only comment on my personal risk assessment which went;

I don’t want my car to go on fire - that would be bad! Slight panic was had! Then I remembered my friend is notorious for believing any crap she’s sees on You Tube. So I researched as best I could with my limited expertise in this area;

Research currently shows: EV cars less likely than petrol to go on fire. Found several robust sources for this. But there are some people saying that if it does go on fire it could be a worse fire (but I don’t know that for sure).

I don’t really want any risk of fire as any car fire is likely to be bad, but I have to drive.

There is risk in everything I do - so I’ll stick with the EV as it’s less likely to catch fire in the first place.

But that’s just my assessment based on my research and I’m not suggesting other people should do the Bogwood

Of course they would.

It also doesn't mean that those people weren't wrong in their concerns either those. If you were a carriage maker you might well be fair in your worries and concerns over your livelihood! (I have a bunch of carriage makers in my family)

As a rule DH and I have tended to be earlier adopters of tech than average. But on this EV aren't offering anything new in terms of notable advantage to the user and certainly not on a budget that works for us. And that's the biggest barrier to adoption for any new tech.

The climate change argument isn't as obvious and as tangible and tbh I think there are plenty of ways to reduce your impact with regards to cars without going to EV just yet. I remain unconvinced that during the lifetime of a very small petrol vehicle you are causing less of an issue than a very large EV. Not when you consider all the hidden costs involved in manufacturing and mining. I do think it will hit a tipping point but I don't think we have reached that critical mass point (and tbh I don't think lithium batteries are the solution - batteries are, it's just lithium ones aren't it).

Bogwood Thanks for the info - any links to robust research around that please? Our second car is petrol. Any guidance on what to look out for in that please? You sound like an expert in all things car and fire related?

We’ve had an EV for the last 6 months and whilst I wouldn’t rule out going back to a petrol car when we look to change next, I don’t think we will. I really like the car and how it drives, and haven’t experienced any issues with charging points. I’m in the north-west and there are chargers everywhere. Longer trips require a bit more planning but nothing too onerous and have only been to one services where had to wait for the fast chargers.

RedToothBrush

Not trying to convince you either way. I couldn’t care less what car you drive, but have you actually looked into the environmental impact of both types properly? There is a lot of misinformation out there. My understanding is, that whilst not perfect, EVs, overall are less damaging to the environment- even when you take into account the things you mention. Certainly in terms of air pollution of course.

@Bogwood
there is simply not enough data to draw the conclusions that you have about environmental impact over the lifetime of the car, especially considering that the oldest EVs necessarily had a higher impact being new to production.

Air quality in cities is also a huge issue (and the knock-on impact on public health). Oh and Electric buses are on the way and very much part of this ‘net zero malarkey’ - a bad idea?

That made me chuckle. I have to say that I’m not a fan of change much either. Our EV was DH driven but I’m glad we did shift to it I really like it now, especially being able to accelerate so quickly to overtake as I get really nervous about that!

I think there were protests against cars initially weren’t there? Which makes sense. Suddenly going faster in a man made device after being stuck with horses must have been a bit scary! Human nature to be suspicious of new things I guess. Survival
instinct.

People keep saying they don't want to queue (for hours!) to charge. Where are all these queues? I've been driving electric for a year, my mum for 3 years. We've never queued. I have queued for diesel, in my previous car.

@TheHoover This academic knows his stuff....could provide you with a useful starting point...worth a watch...

I had noticed that the information re EV issues seems linked to right wing politics. The friend that told me my EV was more likely to explode has gone down a very far right rabbit hole.

So hard to get good unbiased information. That’s why I always do my own research when I can, rather than rely on headlines.

I think come election time it will be so important that we all dig deep into the manifestos rather than rely on the media. So much bias out there and so many attention grabbing headlines with no real substance or debate.

Haha - I really can't claim to be an expert on all things car related (I have never driven and have no intention of doing so...no love of vehicles, whether EVs or ICEVs!). As for fires, I am indeed an expert, but only the ones that are safely contained in a hearth! I am sure there is plenty of robust research out there though - I very much doubt that the Norwegian ferry company that banned EVs from its vessels did so on a whim...and I am sure that there must have been credible evidence underpinning the Australian Maritime Safety Agency's warnings!

@Bogwood have a read of this
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/03/is-there-a-shift-from-disbelieving-climate-change-to-attacking-renewables/amp/

@BottleShipDown quod erat demonstrandum

Mark Mills is the Mike Yeadon of energy academics

Bogwood

I have seen this video and did some research at the time and found this article that states;

Prager U is not a university—it's run by a talk radio host. Its videos frequently contain misinformation, especially when the subject is climate change. The content is so bad that Google, which is often slow to react to misinformation on its platforms, has slapped fact checks on a number of Prager U videos.
Even without the Prager U branding, the host of this video would cause some concern. Mark Mills is associated with the Manhattan Institute, a free-market think tank with a long history of rejecting any government involvement in markets. This has left the group with a reflexive loathing of any attempts to address global warming.
Mills himself is not necessarily a reliable source on renewable power, as he's been heavily involved in companies focused on nuclear power and fossil fuel extraction. Mills has also spoken at the climate meeting hosted by the notorious trolls at the Heartland Institute.

Article below - not this one. The one in my post below. The link didn’t work properly and has linked to another article and I can’t delete it!

@TheHoover and @BottleShipDown I agree that the whole issue has been stupidly politicised. Science should not be political - but I am afraid that the propaganda does indeed run through the narrative on both sides. The fact that we can talk about 'sides' and think that adopting a certain position identifies you politically is really quite dangerous and will end up having serious economic and environmental consequences. It prevents objective debate. Thus, anyone who opposes the 'net zero' agenda is immediately pigeon-holed as a right wing nutter (I am actually quite the opposite!), regardless of their underlying political proclivities. This shuts down and certainly limits proper discussions.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/03/is-there-a-shift-from-disbelieving-climate-change-to-attacking-renewables/amp/

"I very much doubt that the Norwegian ferry company that banned EVs from its vessels did so on a whim..."

Especially as its direct competitor on the route is still allowing EVs on board its ships.

Mind you, how much this will affect it commercially is another thing. Although headline figures trumpet the "nearly 80%" figure for EVs in Norway, that's only new sales - the latest (2022) figures show that just 16% of all cars are battery EVs

Chersfrozenface

Sadly neither article have any detail
on how the risk assessment was made (and the articles state that there is more chance of petrol cars catching fire and the specifically mentioned issues with EV fires, also mostly apply to petrol cars too) so it’s hard to know why they are the only ferry company currently with this policy. Could be extreme risk aversion or could be sensible and everything in between.

Sorry OP. Just realised that I’m contributing to derailing your thread into a debate on EVs and climate change generally.

You are right that the infrastructure could have been more carefully thought out! It’s getting better all the time though.

I think come election time it will be so important that we all dig deep into the manifestos rather than rely on the media.
This is and always has been true.
I have never voted Tory and have voted green in the past but due to our utterly shit and undemocratic voting system I will have to vote Labour as we need to stop the Tories destroying everything.