We are not set up for electric vehicles in this country

[Pollyannaatemyjelly]

We have an electric vehicle. We tend not to do too many long journeys but today it was inevitable. We have visit a very popular destination via major motorways but there is not one fast charger available on our route. I've just stopped on the M5 on what is supposed to be a dual charger (so more than one vehicle can charge) but it's not working. I've had to wait 20 minutes for the vehicle next to me to charge before I can even begin to charge mine. There is no chance this county can become all electric when the infrastructure is so poor.

We’ve had our EV for four years. We live on the South coast and have family in Yorkshire and the Netherlands, drive to and from both regularly. We have driven it all over Europe including to Norway. Never had any problems charging. Only queued twice and both times not for long. Apart from the initial vehicle purchase cost, it has been very cheap to run and maintain.

The anti-EV propaganda is strong and we’ve had plenty of friends/family spout it at us over the last four years. I just roll my eyes and let them get on with it.

It depends on your mileage though too doesn't it?

Yes we did look at it, but ultimately the costs are the bit that are the most prohibitive issue.

DH and I are exactly the people EVs need to be pitched at. We are open to the idea, are looking to reduce impact on the environment and generally speaking are early adopters of tech. And we STILL decided to stick with petrol for a while longer because the numbers didn't stack up sufficiently for us on various accounts. We don't want to be tied into a contract / finance, we do very low mileage and wanted a very small car with good visibility. We don't want to pay through the nose for a status symbol and we aren't interested in the virtue signalling aspect.

As a rule DH and I are about as practical and dull on cars as functional things as it gets. Tbh the charging point thing really isn't an issue for us. We could charge at home, don't do many long journeys (and if we do we go in DHs car anyway), there's an express point within 50m of the house and there's an even faster one within 2 miles at a local garage.

But the whole thing just isn't there for us yet. As I say it's probably about 2 to 3 years for us in terms of where we think we'd be ready to switch DHs car and we are watching the market carefully for the right car for that as he will be looking to replace his car in the next few years.

The market really isn't matching up with demands and criteria people are considering when buying yet. And the 'have you really looked at the environment' issue is really quite simply virtue signalling bollocks to me - not because I'm not concerned about the environment, but more because we try and work to reduce our consumption and footprint in numerous other ways and quite frankly, I am sick of the 'we've done our bit, we got an electric car ' crew. The benefits have to be significantly different on multiple counts not just the environment and obvious to make the case - if you are fannying around having to look at zillions of reports then the technology itself hasn't made the case well enough yet. The battery life is one of the biggest things for me and what that does to the lifespan of a car - a new battery being £5k is deeply problematic to the second hand car market - and the jury is still out in terms of whether a new EV now with have as long a life as a petrol car so good luck with finding a report on that - we are still at the speculation stage.

Ultimately it comes down to financial considerations and that will drive things far more than the environmental arguments because so many people simply can't afford to switch. I find it telling that some of the biggest EV evangelists fail to acknowledge this - plenty of examples on this thread doing that.

All parties proclaim themselves in favour of lowering carbon emissions and promoting electric vehicles.

Our city council is Labour and, as I have already said, boasts that it has installed 18 charging points - for a city of over 360,00 people and just under 124,000 households

According to the National and the Financial Times, if elected Labour "are planning to impose new binding targets on councils to roll out electric vehicle (EV) charging points".

It would be really good if their own councils were on the same page

We’ve travelled all over Europe in ours (also had it 4 years), plus journeys between Cornwall, Wales, Scotland & the E and W coasts, never had any problem. That said, it does take a certain amount of in-car planning, but you can see how many chargers are available where on most networks, so it’s really unusual to have to queue.

It’s the in-car planning that puts me off. If I’m driving by myself with DC, I want to know where I’m stopping and I want it to be directly on the route without fannying around with ‘it’s only a couple of miles off the motorway’ faff.

I also can’t re-plan while en route without illegally using my phone. Which I won’t do.

I can see that if you’re not in a massive rush, and you have another adult to act as co-pilot and check the various apps as you go, it’s fine. That’s just not my usual set up for long distance drives.

I'm not in the least anti EV. I'd love to have one.

but, if you live rurally you are much much more dependent on cars than those who live in towns. Distances are such that bikes aren't practical and there is often absolutely no public transport (we have one bus a week). There are no chargers within ten miles of my house and I couldn't charge from home, I work in a supermarket with no staff parking, so couldn't charge at work, even should they fit EV chargers they will be for customers only.

So until there are guaranteed charging points (the three that are within 10 miles might be out of order (sometimes are!) and I don't have time to drive about searching for a charging point) I won't be investing in an EV.

Should I ever be able to afford one, that is.

It’s really not that complex to plan the en route charging.
For example at the end of the month I am driving from Wiltshire to Southport. I already know that I will stop at Keele on the m6 to charge. However if I think I need a charge sooner, I will stop at Stafford. The car will tell me how many chargers are available etc.

On the way back I’ll stop at Hilton Park, or if I’m making good progress then Michaelwood (m5) - it’s super easy to judge and the car will update the charge destination if it needs to.

All makes sense. You have to do what’s right for you.

For info. We have an oldish Zoe. It was £13,000 (two to three years ago) and does 150 miles per charge. Takes about half an hour to charge on a 22Kw. We have had to wait for a charger once and I’d say there is an issue and we have to find a different charger about 1 in every 30 times we charge on a public charger. We don’t pay tax and so far insurance is equivalent. It costs much less than petrol and it fits us and a weeks camping equipment (with a roof box) in it - just. So far servicing is no different in costs. It’s done around 60,000 miles. So it works for us. As a town/city runabout it is perfect. We will upgrade to a bigger EV with more boot space and a longer range though as those things aren’t perfect for us. But totally fine. 😊

I do think that is a fair point of view. It isn’t easy if the charger you need isn’t working. What I will say is that ZapMap is good for showing up any problems and once you’ve done the planning for a journey you get to know the reliable chargers and the nice places to stop.

I think businesses will start to cotton on more too soon. There are cafes and restaurants we now use to stop for lunch on long journeys purely because of the charger. A little church cafe just off the M50 for example - we’d never have gone there otherwise. And it’s literally two minutes off the main road so no more of a detour than stopping at services. I think it can make the journey a bit more interesting. But that’s just me. I can totally see your point and I did feel the same at first.

It's not 'them' removing high streets. It's people who refuse to visit high streets and shop online. And those who do visit choose Starbucks and Nando's over the local restaurants and cafes

Friend of mine has been waiting four years for a knee replacement. Its got so bad he can only walk very short distances so uses his car when he needs to go out. He has not visited the high street for YEARS. Because like many high streets its been pedestrianized and he cant park there YET cant get a disabled badge because its not considered a permanent disability despite the long wait.
@NoNonsenseNelly Now with the millions on the NHS waiting list this IS being replicated millions of times over. Those in charge wont have realised this because they cant do joined up thinking/think critically. Bezos and co will be making a mint out of this situation. The high streets? Not so much!!

This is a fair point and other than it not being that practical if you don’t have off street parking is almost the only negative IMO

I never go outside range by myself or with the dc. All my longer drives will have me doing the charge planning and navigating in the passenger seat while dh drives. I enjoy it to some extent though. In the future it should be easier

@RedToothBrush Cant help wondering where the EV evangelists were when disabled people were getting a hard time over the batteries in their mobility scooters. Fucking tumbleweed then!

DH was told to get rid of his or the HA would destroy it I was laughed at on here when i talked about this before and the laughter and piss taking was even taken to another site. After going through ALL other channels i had to shame them on social media to get this stopped. This ruined the run up to Christmas 2017 with all the stress. DH did get a shed where he could store and charge it in. Which he happily pays for. He also had to pay £200 to have the lid fixed (shed opens upwards) twice when the druggies tried to break into it, If the HA had approached us about it properly and actually treated us as human there would have been no need to involve social media.

I cant see them putting in charging points

This this this

So much absolute shite written on this thread!! Anybody considering an EV or the future or cars in general needs to be aware that most of this thread is absolute bollocks.

We also have two EVs. We live rurally and it's an absolute blessing to not have to waste time at a petrol station any more. Yes we can charge from home but a farm shop 2 miles down the (country!) road has just installed rapids.

We've been to France in our lower range car a couple of times. Shock horror it was not difficult or stressful. You just have to spend 10 mins before you go planning.

DH works 160 miles away. He takes the longer range car. He has no charging at work. Again, shock horror, he actually survives! He plans his charging, grabs tea whilst the car charges and sets off when it's done.

Inexperienced EV drivers may look for chargers at motorway services. Most of us know that that's not where the investment in the charging network is being made and you have to use EV specific tools such as ZapMap.

You don't plan in the car. You plan before you set off and set your route just as you would for any other journey. I travel all the time with my kids. I've never switched plans mid driving.

100% with you about disability access, there should always be provision for disabled people.

Pedestrianised high streets are still 100% more vibrant than those with narrow pavements and cars driving thorough. It's definitely not the reason highs streets are dying.

No its not but millions of people UNABLE to go to the high street as well as those CHOOSING not to go wont be helping

the car park thing is a genuine issue.

I have heard it mentioned several times on radio 4 (so it must be true 😂)

but seriously, it is an issue, and it is being addressed bit by bit as everything is.

Personally I don't think electric is the way forward. We will never get enough supply for everyone to drive an electruc car and also have electric based heating etc etc.

I think it is pretty likely that one of the other fuels being looked out will take over from electric, eg hydrogen.

At the moment it is really for the time rich or the money rich.
Meanwhile in other news I am landed with Ulez for my 2014 car which I am unlikely to replace for 10 years at least. Thank you Mr Khan. (Vote Tory for London major 2024 to be rid of outer London ulez - Susan Hall)

It's all very well for EV owners to come on here and say there are loads of chargers and that they've never had any issues with their cars, but that still ignores the main limit on owning an EV which is money.

If you don't have the money, then the charging network could be the best in the world and it still wouldn't make any difference to the vast majority of people.

@steppemum
"We will never get enough supply for everyone to drive an electruc car and also have electric based heating etc etc."

National Grid themselves say this is a myth - efficiencies in technology means that we are way down on peak demands from the grid and capacity is being added, with proper management of the grid then it's not an issue.

www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/electric-vehicles-myths-misconceptions

www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars

www.mrcharger.co.uk/news/is-there-enough-electricity-for-evs#:~:text=At%20the%20end%20of%20June,In%20short%2C%20yes.

www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/amp/

@NoNonsenseNelly

Pedestrianised high streets are still 100% more vibrant than those with narrow pavements and cars driving thorough. It's definitely not the reason highs streets are dying.

Maybe your High Street is vibrant but ours is more like tumbleweed with boarded up/derelict empty shops with the odd off licence, betting shop and charity shop. It used to be vibrant when people could actually park close by, but the council pedestrianised it and built an expensive car park (which is usually mostly empty), and it all went downhill from then!

Same story is repeated across many run down Northern towns.

The "vibrant" towns are the ones that still have on street parking and reasonably priced car parks.

The problem there is the car parking then, not the pedestrianised high street. The parking exists but nobody is going to pay extortionate prices just to look around shop windows.

So they shop online, as I said originally. And people who do pay to bonkers prices will go to chain stores.

We do long distance journeys and do not like to stop unless it’s an emergency. Petrol/ diesel stop which takes five minutes. Waiting for batteries to charge would drive me insane. There is not an electric car that could cope on our smallholding either.

But this is how R&D works. Things with higher profit margins (i.e. that cost more) have more money to spend on developing new products. Then as these are developed, cheaper versions are able to be made once the product/technology is in better circulation. We're at the phase at the moment where EVs are still expensive but they're coming down in price. There is also more of a second hand market developing as EV owners buy new cars.

Somebody has to make the initial investment and it tends to be those with more money to spend.

As an EV owner, I would love for them to be more affordable for those who need them the most because they're so cheap to run. It's so much cheaper to charge at home (I know a lot of people can't before you jump on me!!) - but it costs me £2-£2.30 to charge my car to 80% which is a hell of a lot more affordable than £60-£100 worth of petrol.

The argument doesn't have to be binary - there will always be negatives (have you seen the list of negatives for ICE cars???) but it's also not helpful for untruths to be spread around as truths.

SIGH. You haven't actually read the reasons why people can't go electric, have you? THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT, and/or have nowhere to charge. Simple as that.
Also fyi the first motor cars were WAY outside the average person's budget as well. But it's all about fear of change, aye.
Thread after thread of smug, ignorant, well off people completely unable to grasp that not everyone is in the same position as they are.
Enraging.