Vile SIL and Christmas

[IhateRachelclub]

My SIL lets call her Rachel is vile, she has temper tantrums regularly. Generally directed at her father. Usually, the tantrums will be for something nobody has any idea about, she will sulk for months, and be outright nasty for ages.

To the current dilemma. MIL has been seriously ill recently and is recovering. I asked DH to find out what MIL and Rachel's plans are for Christmas, if it’s at our house I will need to order food etc.

SIL left DH on read (so we knew she was pissed off at one or both of us), then yesterday she sent a calculated rude message, saying Christmas is her mother’s religious festival and she (SIL) will cook as she always has.

This is meant to be nasty as I am Muslim and Christmas has no religious bearing for me. I and DH and our DC all join in the festivities with his family to keep them happy and it is fun being with family. Frankly if I could stay home and relax with my kids watching crap on TV and just being together it would be far cheaper and agreeable for us.

SIL’s behaviour during Christmas’s past has been as follows, she will wake up late huff and puff at all ‘the work’, be rude and shouty with her mother, we all pitch in (she isn’t doing the work herself by any means), washing dishes and chopping veg, getting the turkey in the oven, and OMG I made gravy one year, and she was so vile to me kept telling me my gravy was floury and she preferred the tinned gravy. I’ve not made her gravy since, she gets her tinned gravy every time now, despite asking me last year where the vegetarian gravy was (she is vegetarian when it suits her), I told I know she found my gravy to taste floury so we’d ensured we had her fave tinned gravy in.

I know MIL does not want Christmas at her house she is not well and its too much for her, but this is what will happen as SIL bullies her mother to do what she wants. SIL will then be a martyr and spend the day being nasty and bitchy to me and DH (who is used to his sister’s nastiness). Then we will no doubt hear about how hard done by she is for the rest of the year.

I personally do not want to go to MIL’s this Christmas, my older DC will be at work, we don’t celebrate Christmas so they take on shifts for their colleagues who do. I don’t want to spend my day walking on eggshells around SIL and listening to her bitching at me and trying not to walk in on her bitching about me to her mum. I don’t want or need to hear her nastiness. She is vile, I know this, I don’t need more reason to dislike her.

I am fine for DH to go and take our younger DC because I know MIL will want to see her DGC. But he’s upset that his mum will be upset if I don’t go.

I don’t want to be a target for SIL and I know I will utterly lose it with her, I’ve spent years biting my tongue and laughing off her bad behaviour. I don’t want to anymore. She is horrible, she has a long history of being nasty at every opportunity to me and DH. I don’t want to be available for her to abuse anymore.

How do I go about this without hurting MIL and giving SIL more ammunition to be nasty?

The message was carefully worded and really nasty. MIL doesn't want Christmas at hers, SIL does want Christmas at her mothers, she has more control at her mothers house, but not at mine.

Her message was meant to be mean to me specifically bringing up religion to be divisive.

And form the message I know she will spend the day bitching at me and taking every opportunity to be nasty to me.

I don't want to put myself in that situation, where I am sitting there being targeted by her. It's like being bullied at school.

OP was kindly offering an alternative because her MIL has been seriously ill. Sister is making a dig at the OP not being Christian and being territorial herself. How dare anyone offer to help. Even though they always help. She’s a martyr and everything is about her. She wants everyone to know she’s angry.

My husbands family are all very very indirect. Dh will never say we will do Christmas, in case he upsets SIL, and MIL will not agree to anything till DH and SIL agree on what to do. Basically SIL telling him what she expects to happen.

They are all extremely polite to one another (except SIL who will outright scream at her mum if she's annoyed).

I did break down last night and told Dh I can't go, my needs are not being met in his pursuit of appeasing SIL.

The irony, I am NC with my family for being abusive, I may as well visit them on Christmas if I want to spend the day being verbally abused.

and what did your DH say when you broke down OP?

She sounds like a constipated shit. I’m so sorry

He said he will speak to his mother.

Problem is MIL is extremely unwell, otherwise I would not care about refusing to go. She loves her DD and understandably doesn't want to be seen to side against her.

I do love MIL a great deal she is lovely.

I have no idea how he will deal with this, he has spent years nodding along and appeasing his sister.

Our wedding was all about SIL, who took umbrage at I have no idea what. Everything has to centre her, when her parents divorced and FIL remarried SIL was furious, she said she should be the only important woman in her fathers life!

Sorry, i just couldn't get past tinned gravy. On that basis alone YANBU

I think if MIL has been unwell then it's a good excuse to tone down the celebrations and just pop by to say hello either on the day or boxing day. That way you aren't staying for a meal and don't need to get bogged down in all the stress over that and can just swing by for your daughter to hello to grandparents then leave after an hour. You can tell MIL it's to save her the stress of a big family gathering when she is likely to prefer something smaller this year.

I would see what DH thinks about eating at home to save SIL and MIL the stress of catering soyou can limit the time you spend there. Then just go for drinks and pudding and gift swapping.

SIL is going to be vile whatever you do, so arrange with your MIL directly as to how when you would like to see her over the Christmas period. Enjoy your own Christmas Day as suits you, DH & DC!
Maybe after Christmas address SIL highly offensive behaviour.

Just call her a massive see you next tuesday to her nasty spiteful face. When she bans you from Christmas just deny that you said anything.

Who they gonna believe?

Honestly, I'd just visit mother in law Christmas eve to give her gift. I'd message now to say we're having a quiet Christmas at home this year. Perhaps it might be a good idea to look at going away next Christmas.

The problem here is with your husband. They're his relatives and he needs to be responsible for solving any problems.

It sounds like he's at a loss and that's not surprising. He is probably used to his family's dynamic and has no idea how to do things differently. You can spell it out for him though.

Tell him that you don't want his mother to be sad you're not there, but you have done your share of putting up with the SIL's rudeness and drama. Everyone has chosen to step back and let her behave without boundaries, so now you have had enough. If he and his mother want to come up with a solution where the SIL won't be allowed to ruin the day, then they should tell you their plan and you'll go. But if their solution is to continue letting the SIL be rude and unpleasant, you're staying home. The ball is in their court.

If your husband comes back and tells you he will limit his sister's behaviour, then make sure to ask the specifics. What's his plan? Is he willing to call her out? Are her parents willing to banish her from the celebrations? Another solution is to invite his mother and father to your house.

Finally, the sort of behaviour your SIL is displaying usually doesn't come out of nowhere. People who come from calm, supportive families or from a history free from bullying and abuse don't usually grow up to throw tantrums. This sort of person is often the "squeaky wheel" in a family or school background situation that's dysfunctional. Your SIL does sound impossible to deal with, but don't assume she magically became horrible. There'll be a reason. Maybe your husband should talk to her and find out why she is the way she is.

I think @1willgetthere has a great idea. Just head over for pudding (or breakfast/supper) in the guise of reducing the stress for everyone especially your MIL.

Pop by for an hour or so.

I've managed to reach a really good place with my in-laws. I won't bore you with the details, or link the 100 threads I've posted on here since MN started, but you get the picture.

How I reached this nirvana is I just stopped giving a shit. I have zero expectations of them, I'm never going to benefit from the relationship, and they can't be trusted. I worked on it, and one day, I just stopped caring.

Now, I am happy to be myself in their presence, and do what I want to do, and I say No to lots of things. I am polite to them, but my MIL and SIL are never going to be my friend. I just don't care, and I mean that. It is not fake. Because I don't care, they don't affect me.

I met some of my in-laws friends recently and they gave me a cautious, frosty reception. No doubt they have been listening to them slagging me off for years. I just didn't care.

One of my DH's siblings has just married and I noticed that they are not in a good place with the in-laws and they are doing to them, what they did to me. They look confused, and upset. I'd have a word with them, but unfortunately when they came on the scene I decided I didn't need another in-law to deal with and so I haven't facilitated a relationship with them. They can work it out themselves.

My energy if for me, my DH and DC, and my family.

You need to keep taking steps back from SIL and start to build up boundaries.

I think you should have Xmas at home and have family over for Boxing Day. It sounds really stressful and I'm sure MIL also worries about the tension/comments etc so she may actually enjoy the day more knowing she gets to see you all the day after.

I know very few Brits for whom Xmas is all about religion, these days - they are still entitled to a good time, though!

Dh and mil need to stand up to sil. Your dh needs to be told first that’s it’s a no . Then he needs to stand up to his sis.
I think then dh and you should speak to mil tell
her why you won’t be attending this year and that mil is invited but sil won’t be and you would love her to come.
Or invite them both and don’t allow kids to go visit Xmas day. If you give in at all this year then nothing will change

Great advice from PP, pop round a day earlier or later for an hour or so, maybe with a little gift or treat. Say you want her to have a cosy intimate gathering with her immediate family this year, and you want to save her the stress and chaos of a big gathering.

Disagreeing with other PP – don't bring up SIL etc unless necessary because cmon, who needs that stress and conflict when they're dying or at least really ill. It's SIL who is nasty, not MIL, and no point forcing MIL to start taking sides or intervening between her own DD and DIL while ill. Maybe my POV is coloured by family member recently being very ill and now dead, but anyway just go with the most civil route while protecting your boundaries still. MIL probably already knows or will figure out the true reason anyway.

Personally I would invite MIL to. yours with FIL/DH/DVs and fuck SIL straight to orbit.

Could you see your MIL alone, away from everyone else and have a heart to heart? Explain how SIL behaviour affects you. Tell her your husband will be there on Christmas Day but you won’t, that it isn’t personal and you love her very much. You can be very factual, doesn’t need to turn into a bitch fest about SIL but she’s seen it herself.

My advice is to stay at home eating quality street in your pjs and send her a gift of a wrapped up piece of coal with a tag that says from the I hate Rachel club.

Could you have your MIL over to yours on Christmas Eve Sunday if she’s well enough. If she is too poorly, maybe go to hers and cook a special meal for you all. So that at least she gets to see her dgc at Christmas time.
Stay home on Christmas Day, knowing you’ve done your bit for MIL.
MIL has to put her foot down if she doesn’t want to be bullied into going to her daughters. It’s up to your DH to help her with doing that, rather than enabling it to happen.
Your DH could go to SIL’s if he still wants to. If the children really want to go, they can go with him.
Make sure you let your SIL know why you personally won’t be accepting her invitation for Christmas Day….you don’t find her tantrums, sulks, jibes and antagonistic remarks relaxing and prefer to spend the day peacefully and happily without the annual upset.

Just stay at home. MIL is welcome to come to you if she wants.
In all honesty, I'd stop holding my tongue. I was a doormat for YEARS. I'm such a people pleaser and would put up with shit for an easy life. I can't tell you how liberating it was to just answer back to people truthfully if they were rude. I didn't start shouting and screaming, but I did start directly addressing rudeness and I did cull friendships where I was treated like crap. Don't put up with it anymore. If SIL ask why you won't come tell her it's because you find her immensely rude and disrespectful and you won't stand for it anymore. She can either be polite or fuck off frankly. Some people need a good dose of attitude back at them.

she sounds deranged. glad u are nc, some folk are just so plain nasty, their evil personalities can't help but show.

Just wanted to send some empathy your way OP as I'm in a similar situation. I always feel like I've tolerated SiL's behaviour (who like yours, has huge tantrums when things don't go her way and is used to speaking to people how she likes with no consequence). I recently had my first falling out with her as it were and she was vile to me. Like you- I don't want to be around her at the moment, but also appreciate she is my kids' auntie. DH started off saying he'll support me in having space at Christmas, but this is already turning into "December's a long way away". He won't speak to his parents about it because he's worried it will upset them, but I've said it's unfair to them as they'll be planning Christmas now in terms of food etc (my MiL preps early!) and it's also unfair to me to expect me to feel pressured into being around her right now.

So no advice really, but I'd say do what makes you feel safe/ happiest and DH will have to manage his own expectations around what Christmas will look like. Can you still see your MiL around that time but just avoid any time your SiL is there?