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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Sister wants to sell our jointly owned property aboard but I don't ??

155 replies

iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 18:56

I need some advice. I jointly own a property abroad with my sister. We are both in our late 40s. She does not work and is on benefits.

She now wants to sell her share of said property and I don't . This property was gifted to us by our mother. It is currently rented out.

The country the property is located in the economy is really bad at the moment and it's already lost £10k of its value. The total value is now around only £50k. I want to wait it out and have plans to eventually semi retire in the country the property is in. I also have very fond memories of spending summers at this place. I really don't want to sell.

However, she wants out now and would like the money. I cannot afford to pay her in excess of £25k. I have suggested given her a small lump sum of £5k and then monthly payments of £500 per month over 3 years. She is angry and is not happy with this suggestion. She would like the money in one lump sum.

AIBU. I work full time and also have a young family. The money I give her will be tax free for her and also I don't think she will declare it to her benefits office.

I really don't want to upset her but think she's being a little unfair.

OP posts:
Goldbar · 31/10/2023 22:40

Loubelle70 · 31/10/2023 22:36

Surely thats immoral considering OP accuses her sister of being 'immoral'. Actually if sister can prove she owns half house the solicitor can wait for payment until she gets payout under agreement between parties.

Show quote history

I wouldn't put any obstacles in her way, I just wouldn't be falling over myself to help and would let her do the legwork.

Given it's the sister who wants the sale, I really don't see what's immoral about that.

Densol57 · 31/10/2023 22:40

She should already have declared it as "savings" for Universal Credit, but I presume she hasnt. Anyway ........

Just sell or buy her out. You are being unfair

Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 22:43

CliantheLang · 31/10/2023 22:20

I would have questions.

For instance - why does she need the money right now? (Assuming your sister isn't a drug/gambling addict.) Does she have a new boyfriend? You know, the kind that thinks that what's her's is his.

Giving her a lump sum may not be doing her any favors, here.

But then, you can tell I've been spending too much time on the relationships board.

She wants the money now so that she can buy certain things for herself like nice clothes, bits gif the house etc. She wants to enjoy the money she had always lived in the moment.

OP posts:
Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 22:45

Densol57 · 31/10/2023 22:40

She should already have declared it as "savings" for Universal Credit, but I presume she hasnt. Anyway ........

Just sell or buy her out. You are being unfair

She has not and never will as it would affect her monthly income. I am trying my best to raise the money and am looking at loans.

OP posts:
Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 22:47

MariaLuna · 31/10/2023 22:39

What she declares or not is no business of yours, with respect.

HA! It is very much her business what she declares. The sister owns part of a house in a foreign country while living off the tax payer. Bottom line.

She'll get it, OP, why are you feeling you owe her? You don't.

Families are complicated. As you see every day here.

You are not responsible for your sister's life style or choice in life.

I'm certainly not responsible for her life choices at all. I love my sister but some of her life choices have been terrible.

OP posts:
widowtwankywashroom · 31/10/2023 22:47

I'll buy her out OP. I'd love a little place abroad xx ❤️

Soontobe60 · 31/10/2023 22:48

Sealady19 · 31/10/2023 19:19

You are being totally sensible and understanding in a wise and considerate way with your sister. You have the right vision, do not change your stance, you are on the right track, she would waste the money gained pretty soon any any way and then she'd be deprived of this last resource.

How do you know she would waste the money? What she does with her money is totally up to her!

MariaLuna · 31/10/2023 22:49

Find it quite weird people thinking they know how it works in other countries who all have different inherenterence laws.

You cannot disinherit kids here unless a junkie. (It happened).

Get thee to a lawyer!
,

TheYearOfSmallThings · 31/10/2023 22:51

I think if you can't afford to buy her out now, you should sell. It doesn't matter what she plans to spend the money on, and I don't think she is unreasonable to want to sell a property overseas that is of limited use to her.

Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 22:52

FirstFallopians · 31/10/2023 22:16

PP are focusing on OP’s sister’s UC circumstances, but unless she declared the proceeds herself, was subject to a spot check or was reported to DWP by someone she knew, she’s not going to get suddenly “found out” purely because of this sale.

It’s a risk she’s obviously willing to take, and that’s her responsibility.

I’d sell up if I was you, OP. If she’s already fraudulently claiming UC I’d worry about what other risks she was taking, and I wouldn’t want any financial ties to that person.

I am tempted to just sell and break financial ties with her. My family and friends have advised me that it is too much,

It is always complicated when dealing with property and family members.

My sister is the kind of person who will blow through the money in a year or so and then be angry at me for having an asset that's increasing in value. She has no other property or pension and sees me as the rich sister.

OP posts:
AnotherEmma · 31/10/2023 22:53

It will be difficult to raise the £25k but I think you should buy her out as it's better not to jointly own with someone like this. You say she has been fraudulently claiming UC for years and is irresponsible with money. So buy her out and draw a line under it. Hopefully once it's sorted you won't have to talk to her about money again and can just disengage / grey rock if she raises the subject.

Do you have a mortgage on your home? I wonder if you could increase it?

Do make sure you are getting an accurate valuation of the property abroad, get several valuations if you can.

Oh and you'll get lots of people telling you to report her for benefit fraud. Morally it might be the right thing to do but I think you need to be pragmatic. If she found out or had any suspicion it was you, it would utterly destroy your relationship. She will probably get found out eventually one way or another. But it doesn't have to be your fault.

Coughingdodger · 31/10/2023 22:59

Her half of the property is her business. She’s entitled to cash it in if she needs the income. Why should she be deprived of her own money just because you fancy a holiday home in the future?

You drip-feeding her money isn’t appropriate for either of you. If you buy her out it has to be done legally, for both your sakes.

As pp said, you can get a loan and buy her out. Let her do the legwork if you trust her to get a good price for it - do you? - but you both need to pay any legal and professional costs and you shouldn’t put obstacles in her way.

Coughingdodger · 31/10/2023 23:00

Sorry, I meant if you trust her to get a good price if you decide to sell to a third party.
If you decide to buy her out yourself then you can let her set it up but don’t block her.

puffylovett · 31/10/2023 23:02

Please don’t allow your sisters irrational and irresponsible behaviour To ruin your dreams for your future retirement.
personally I would report her or as above, force her hand and make her do all the legwork, finding solicitors etc.

Sureaseggs44 · 31/10/2023 23:03

I would buy her out as long as you do everything properly it’s up to her to declare it and as much as I hate benefit cheats I would just leave that bit and hope Karma gets her eventually . Then you will have the benefit of rising prices and the income . Tough luck on her .

Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 23:04

AnotherEmma · 31/10/2023 22:53

It will be difficult to raise the £25k but I think you should buy her out as it's better not to jointly own with someone like this. You say she has been fraudulently claiming UC for years and is irresponsible with money. So buy her out and draw a line under it. Hopefully once it's sorted you won't have to talk to her about money again and can just disengage / grey rock if she raises the subject.

Do you have a mortgage on your home? I wonder if you could increase it?

Do make sure you are getting an accurate valuation of the property abroad, get several valuations if you can.

Oh and you'll get lots of people telling you to report her for benefit fraud. Morally it might be the right thing to do but I think you need to be pragmatic. If she found out or had any suspicion it was you, it would utterly destroy your relationship. She will probably get found out eventually one way or another. But it doesn't have to be your fault.

Edited

Yes my plan is to buy her out. I really don't want to sell. I won't be able to remortgage my coproperty as have only recently paid a large sum for renovations.

I will raise the money some how I have things I could sell/ and also take out a personal loan.

I would never not give her what she is entitled to.

OP posts:
Mum5net · 31/10/2023 23:07

Has the probate process to be gone through in England? We lost two parents in the last year and our experience has been that this process is very slow. Then when you factor in rules of the country where the property is, and any rules pertaining to the family who are renting, this could be a lengthy period.

Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 23:08

Coughingdodger · 31/10/2023 22:59

Her half of the property is her business. She’s entitled to cash it in if she needs the income. Why should she be deprived of her own money just because you fancy a holiday home in the future?

You drip-feeding her money isn’t appropriate for either of you. If you buy her out it has to be done legally, for both your sakes.

As pp said, you can get a loan and buy her out. Let her do the legwork if you trust her to get a good price for it - do you? - but you both need to pay any legal and professional costs and you shouldn’t put obstacles in her way.

My sister is not very savvy when it comes to money at all. If I every did want to sell I would do all the negotiating as she just would not be able to do it.

OP posts:
Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 23:09

Mum5net · 31/10/2023 23:07

Has the probate process to be gone through in England? We lost two parents in the last year and our experience has been that this process is very slow. Then when you factor in rules of the country where the property is, and any rules pertaining to the family who are renting, this could be a lengthy period.

My mother signed over the property to us over 10 years ago

OP posts:
Feraldogmum · 31/10/2023 23:10

The issue of benefits is irrelevant to anyone but the sister ,and that's for her to navigate.She owns half the property and wants to sell, that's her right. To actually suggest blackmailing and threatening the sister just so OP can get her way, is morally repugnant and bordering on illegal,plus it would cause a rift in the family.

Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 23:13

Sureaseggs44 · 31/10/2023 23:03

I would buy her out as long as you do everything properly it’s up to her to declare it and as much as I hate benefit cheats I would just leave that bit and hope Karma gets her eventually . Then you will have the benefit of rising prices and the income . Tough luck on her .

I know the property will double in valise over the next 5 years and then even more so. I have explained this to my sister but she doesn't care and wants the money now. She has made no provision for her retirement at all.

I have worked since I was 18. I want to retire in the next 5 years. It's a no brainer to keep hold of it.

OP posts:
venusandmars · 31/10/2023 23:16

PP are focusing on OP’s sister’s UC circumstances, but unless she declared the proceeds herself, was subject to a spot check or was reported to DWP by someone she knew, she’s not going to get suddenly “found out” purely because of this sale. It’s a risk she’s obviously willing to take, and that’s her responsibility.

There is a risk difference between having an undeclared property of 'unknown' value abroad, and having X amount of cash hit your UK bank account.

Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 23:16

Feraldogmum · 31/10/2023 23:10

The issue of benefits is irrelevant to anyone but the sister ,and that's for her to navigate.She owns half the property and wants to sell, that's her right. To actually suggest blackmailing and threatening the sister just so OP can get her way, is morally repugnant and bordering on illegal,plus it would cause a rift in the family.

I would never ever blackmail my sister or try and take anything from her that she is owed.

I will do everything legally and above board. As I said previously her issues with UC are hers. I have chosen to turn a blind eye for years.

OP posts:
Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 23:35

Zilla1 · 31/10/2023 20:52

Good luck. HNRTT but perhaps try to view the temporary reduction in the value of the property due to the state of the market as beneficial in saving you half of the reduction in the £10k in the purchase price you'd need to pay. Make sure you get an independent valuation at a suitable time to ensure your DSis doesn't make herself feel she has been hard done by. Also, make sure half the legal fees for the sale-side are charged against her share as they would be if you sold it entirely now. Again, might be helpful to put in writing the obvious like she'll stop receiving half the rental income from the point of sale and she won't be entitled to stay there for free if it can be rented out. Sometimes difficult people have a habit of feeling aggrieved when the can't have their cake and eat it.

.

Yes I do plan to put everything clearly in writing .

OP posts: