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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Sister wants to sell our jointly owned property aboard but I don't ??

155 replies

iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 18:56

I need some advice. I jointly own a property abroad with my sister. We are both in our late 40s. She does not work and is on benefits.

She now wants to sell her share of said property and I don't . This property was gifted to us by our mother. It is currently rented out.

The country the property is located in the economy is really bad at the moment and it's already lost £10k of its value. The total value is now around only £50k. I want to wait it out and have plans to eventually semi retire in the country the property is in. I also have very fond memories of spending summers at this place. I really don't want to sell.

However, she wants out now and would like the money. I cannot afford to pay her in excess of £25k. I have suggested given her a small lump sum of £5k and then monthly payments of £500 per month over 3 years. She is angry and is not happy with this suggestion. She would like the money in one lump sum.

AIBU. I work full time and also have a young family. The money I give her will be tax free for her and also I don't think she will declare it to her benefits office.

I really don't want to upset her but think she's being a little unfair.

OP posts:
Rewis · 31/10/2023 19:24

Canyou get a loan for £25k?

OhComeOnFFS · 31/10/2023 19:26

I agree with the others - buy her out or sell it. Anything else is unfair.

WiddlinDiddlin · 31/10/2023 19:28

Why do you assume she wouldn't declare it?

Depending on which benefits, unless you hand her half the value in cash, she's going to struggle to hide it from them!

If everything is above board, then owning the property will affect her benefits income, you're asked if you own property that you do not live in.

So yes, when she gets half the value, it will stop her UC, once she's spent it, she can claim again. Whereas if PP have suggested, she's got to move from WTC to UC, the property and any income from it, whether thats the rental income or your suggestion of monthly payments... will affect her income long term.

She is better off if you sell it or you buy her out, and I think if you can afford to repay her the way you suggest, then you can afford repayments on a mortgage/loan to buy her out.

Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 19:41

Thanks everyone for your responses.
To make it clear my sister is on UC and does not plan to tell them of this transaction at all.

OP posts:
Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 19:43

The property is abroad. I will look into getting a loan to pay her off.

OP posts:
saoirse31 · 31/10/2023 19:48

Yabvu to refuse to either sell or buy her out.

itswonkylampshade · 31/10/2023 19:53

I agree - buy her out or sell. How she handles the income and why / in what form she wants her asset is not for you to judge. I own property with my brother and sister (also left by our Mum) and we had almost exactly this debate with one of them wanting to be bought out and the other being very angry over that last year. You can’t force someone to remain in a financial partnership with you. It’s called free will so if you want to keep the property, buy her out. I bet you’ll be glad in the long run that you made the effort to do it, too.

Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 19:54

Sirzy · 31/10/2023 19:02

If you can afford £500 per month could you not get a mortgage or loan to buy her out?

ultimatly even if you both pay out to go through courts etc chances are you would still have to sell

Yes I plan to get a loan to try and buy her out

OP posts:
Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 19:55

triballeader · 31/10/2023 19:05

Has she’s realised if she did this her benefits would be sanctioned.?

She does not plan to tell them which I feel is quite immoral

OP posts:
MariaLuna · 31/10/2023 19:55

It’s going to depend entirely on what the laws are in this other country.

Not at all if she's paying her sister in UK.

She'd have to pay for a lawyer though to get the property transferred to her name only (and have the paperwork, and pay for translation).
It ain't cheap.

WiddlinDiddlin · 31/10/2023 19:59

Well, she's likely to get caught hiding a large lump sum payment into her bank account.

I'd get a loan, buy her out, insist you will ONLY pay it to her not to a third party if she tries anything like that... and leave her to it.

Frankly, chances are that buying her out at the current market rate and hanging onto the property will be a better financial outcome for you long term anyway!

Spareus · 31/10/2023 20:00

I do hope you use a lawyer and do any transfer officially to cover yourself? Otherwise you’ll have paid her a load of cash and she’ll still own half…

BeardieWeirdie · 31/10/2023 20:01

I’d bet my children on her still wanting to use it for free holidays once you’ve bought her out. Good luck - and keep everything above board!

ValerieDoonican · 31/10/2023 20:01

The question of whether she declares or not and whether you say/do anything about it, is a separate issue from what you do about the property.

I think you see that OP. I don't agree with the posters who for instance say that you should say you will report her if you let her realise her share. I think you are making the right decision here.

MistyBean · 31/10/2023 20:07

It's upto her what she does with her assets and money. My partner was in this position with a sibling and it was awful and had to get solicitors involved. Ultimately the party who wants out is entitled to be out (in the UK). Not sure how morally anyone can think it's ok to force someone to own a property and be in a financial partnership with someone.

Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 20:10

Frenchfancy · 31/10/2023 19:09

The trouble with your suggestion is that legally she would still own half.

You need to do it properly using a local lawyer.

She and I would both sign a legal agreement stating the terms of the arrangement.

OP posts:
MariaLuna · 31/10/2023 20:11

The money I give her will be tax free for her

I don't understand this (not in UK). No income or money is tax free. You pay VAT on shopping even.

And, you would have to declare it on your own tax return no?

Anyway OP, no way would I facilitate anyone, family or no, to be dodging tax or lying to the social. You could be implicated "by knowingly aiding and abetting" or whatever the legal term is.

Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 20:12

Mum5net · 31/10/2023 19:10

Will she get the £500per -month and 50% of rental in next 3 years?
I think you have made a fair offer even without the rental
income

No she would not get the rental income for 3 years

OP posts:
Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 20:13

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/10/2023 19:11

If you want to retire there, find a way to buy her out. But tell her you will be declaring everything. Her benefits and taxes might put her off.

She will not be happy for me to let the benefits agency know at all

OP posts:
NigelHarmansNewWife · 31/10/2023 20:14

Spareus · 31/10/2023 20:00

I do hope you use a lawyer and do any transfer officially to cover yourself? Otherwise you’ll have paid her a load of cash and she’ll still own half…

That's just what I was thinking. Please protect yourself.

Leave your sister to it once you've bought her out. If you've done everything legally and above board, it's on her if she tries to defraud the DWP.

Original poster
iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 20:16

Loubelle70 · 31/10/2023 19:22

No other option than youve offered...youll have to buy her out by possibly getting 2nd mortgage or loan. Legally she's entitled to half. Does she get half the rent from tenant x

Yes she gets half the rent

OP posts:
theunbelievabletruth · 31/10/2023 20:18

Your sister has obviously lied to get UC. There is a very clear question about 'do you own any property other property either in the uk or abroad. ?

Money OR assets with a value over 16k makes you ineligible for UC although in some circumstances a 12 week dispensation can be considered to give the claimant time to sell. But that's only if she has declared it. Otherwise her claim has been fraudulent from the moment she was in receipt of benefits and owned another property.

The benefits will be reduced by her rental income whilst the house sale goes through.

Do with that what you will.

Pumpkinspicelattetime · 31/10/2023 20:19

iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 20:12

No she would not get the rental income for 3 years

Show quote history

Why not? Surely she should still get rental income in proportion to amount she owns of the property over the 3 years. That just sounds like you are trying to screw her over. Just like she is screwing over taxpayers by not declaring her equity in a property she doesn't live in.

Frenchfancy · 31/10/2023 20:19

iwanttoholdyourhand · 31/10/2023 20:10

She and I would both sign a legal agreement stating the terms of the arrangement.

Show quote history

You still have to abide by the law of the land where the property is. "Abroad" is a big place and laws vary, but in France for instance you can't just sign a piece of paper saying that she is giving half to you. It would need to go through the proper channels and maybe need tax paying.

Property law is very specific. You need local legal advice.

pizzaHeart · 31/10/2023 20:21

I wonder if getting such a big sum of money in case of selling will affect her UC entitlement/ amount. So at the end of the day it might not be in her interest.