To not wear a poppy?

[Notjustmesurely]

I just don’t like how it’s expected or assumed you will wear one.
A friend at work bought me a poppy bracelet type thing which was kind of her but I literally wore it for that one shift and haven’t worn it since.
I appreciate its symbolism but don’t appreciate the assumption that everyone is going to be wearing one or HAS
to wear one to appreciate the cause.
If I were to wear one it would be for the conscripts who had no choice in the matter during the world wars. Not for the “modern day” political wars that the UK has involved itself in. Help for heroes and all that. The charity should come from the politicians who vote for it imo?
Newsreaders and celebs slated for not wearing one as well, what’s that all about.
Dunno it just all seems a bit fascist these days.
I always have and always will observe the two minutes silence tho.

I bought poppies for my dc today and a small badge to wear. Personally I am really grateful for our armed forces and the device they give to keep us all safe. I find it an absolute insult that some people refuse to recognise the sacrifice that they have made.

*service not device

Apologies I hadn’t seen that post. I did have a quick scan before making this one but must have missed it.

But that's not why all soldiers died is it? Some does because of crap military decisions, and some died because of lack of planning for treating injured soldiers, and some died because some arsehole politician wanted a popularity boost so send off an invading fleet, and others because it was part of a wider colonial programme. To group all those tragic and terrible deaths under the fight for freedom is mendacious and glorifies war.

And that's why I don't engage with the obligatory poppy wearing. Of course, not everyone who wears a poppy wants to glorify war. But you can bet that everyone who wants to glorify war will be wearing one (and feeling disrespected by those politely declining to copy).

But surely all those deaths are tragic and should be remembered.

Remembered and mourned, yes. But the idea that death in service makes everyone a hero inherently glorifies war.

And it's also illogical - if the aim is to remember the awfulness of war, why restrict remembrance to soldiers and not civilians who died or were maimed?

It's a very personal thing. I always wear a poppy (I've bought a combination of enamel badges - making sure profits go to the British Legion - one-off poppies and I also have a plastic poppy on my lanyard).
For me it's about remembering those who died in any kind of conflict, as well as those who died during service whilst not involved in 'war' and those still living who have served or are serving now.
It's an emotive subject for me as I know of a young man who entered the Army and was killed in Afghanistan, after making his way up to corporal. He left behind a wife and small child.
I don't see it as glorifying any one section of society above another, but as honouring anyone who was / is prepared to serve.

I donate but don't pin a poppy to my clothes because I don't need to virtue signal my support. I do have a pin badge for a forces charity though on my bike jacket

YANBU. I grew up in a country that was occupied during both wars, and it features very heavily in WW1 and WW2 history incl. most of the major battles (no prizes for guessing which country). My grandparents massively suffered during WW2 even though they were only young teens at the time. There was no food, the nazis were awful to the locals, they were involved in the resistance (again, they were only young teens) and the most of their village was involved in keeping a Jewish couple hidden, safe and fed (and succeeded).
That country also has a government that takes responsibility for the people it's been sending to war since then - i.e. all the armed forces. Armed forces charities like homelessness charities etc are just not a thing. They're not needed.

I find it disgraceful that the UK gov relies on charity for looking after its veterans. As that's where most of the money goes to these days, as the WW1/WW2 veterans are mostly dead. It actually massively angers me that they get away with this.
There's also the fact that the money often doesn't even reaches the people that need it (you can Google how much money all the various veteran charities like Royal British Legion, Help for Heroes etc are sitting on).
Thirdly I massively disagree with most recent wars the UK has gotten involved in in recent years anyway - like Iraq & Afghanistan.

I also don't need to virtue signal that I support the WW1/WW2 veterans and that it was indeed an absolute tragedy and that it must never happen again.

My DH served in the military. People who dont wear a poppy (or wear one of those stupid vegan 'white poppies' instead) are incredibly disrespectful in my eyes.

I wear a white poppy every year. I ate a bacon sandwich yesterday. How can a cardboard poppy be vegan? Are red poppies not vegan?

I understand your perspective, and I respect your right to wear the poppy, but unfortunately not all members of British armed forces have given us reason to be grateful to them. Not all have sacrificed themselves in the cause of freedom or security. Some have unfortunately been the oppressors.

For me there is an insult in assuming that everyone who has served in armed forces is to thanked and admired. Some have done well and honourably. Some not.

I could wear the poppy to respect the dead and their sacrifices. I can certainly donate to veterans in need, and I do. They are not treated very well. But if wearing the poppy is seen as expressing gratitude and admiration for all members of British armed forces, I can have no part in that. The pressure to conform in this area undermines the cause, in my opinion. To remember the dead and to wish that their sacrifices may not be in vain is a very worthy cause.

I find it disgraceful that the UK gov relies on charity for looking after its veterans. As that's where most of the money goes to these days, as the WW1/WW2 veterans are mostly dead. It actually massively angers me that they get away with this.

I agree. I've always thought that when costing a war the government should have to factor in not just the cost of the actual war but the cost of the aftermath. Treating long-term-injured soldiers, paying their benefits when their mental health is too fragile to work. If we really want to show respect for those in the military why do we expect them to rely on charity when their involvement in the military leaves them requiring long term support.

Of course, if the government had to budget for all of that upfront they'd probably think twice before going to war.

For those who are saying they want to honour the war dead in their families. So do I.

A white poppy is way to do that, but it also remembers civilians who died during wars (the red poppy is specifically just for military who died which is an outdated way of remembering - modern wars create more civilian victims than members of the armed forces) and it also calls for peace and end of to war, and end of to support for the manufacture of the arms that make war more likely. I think the red poppy also originally was a call to an end for war but has been co-opted over the decades by politicans to support more wars.

I love wearing a poppy! I want to show support for all our veterans and current hero’s. Don’t wear one if you don’t want to. Feels a bit attention seeking to post about it on the internet.

Do you just feel like that about the UK? What about Rome / Spain / France / Vikings even! Its happened throughout history and as we have become less aggressive, the aggressors will be doing the same in a century.

Anyway back to thread- I couldn't care if people do or don't wear a poppy it's a free country not a communist one.

I wear a poppy, sorry to those who object to enamel poppies but I love mine!

Dear God, the lack of gratitude. I actively despise those who have no respect for our glorious dead.

It is a glorification of war and violence. It is “Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.” All the deaths in war were futile and horrific, as are all deaths from, for example, domestic violence. War brutalises the (mostly) men who are forced to fight in them and traumatises and kills civilians. I see them all as victims, not heroes.

I will wear a white poppy. I mourn all the lives that have been wasted and ruined by war over the centuries. I want nonviolent solutions to political problems to be found.

We are responsible for understanding and commemorating our own history, though. Nobody is suggesting that we commemorate the dead soldiers (or honour the living soldiers and veterans) of Italy, France, Spain etc.

In answer to your question, I'd feel roughly the same about any of the European colonial powers - that their role in the two world wars doesn't mean we can ignore their colonial histories. Those histories don't all pre-date world war 2 either.

no respect for our glorious dead

This is the problem. The red poppy glorifies these murders. I see them as victims, not heroes. I’m sure many of these men were incredibly brave and had a beautiful intention to serve, but it is such a shame that they weren’t given the opportunity to use this bravery and sense of public duty to serve as doctors, firemen, policeman etc. What a waste.

The glorification of the death of soldiers in war encourages more young men to sign up to this violence. If every hand refused to take up a gun against another human, then the politicians who start wars, but don’t fight in them, would have no one to do their dying for them, and they would have to find another way.

I do t wear one for the same reason me as you OP.

I wear a poppy in remembrance of my classmate who died in Afghanistan when we were in our early 20s.

What is lovely about wearing a poppy is they are a choice, and you have the right to choose not to wear them without feeling guilty.

I think it is lovely when I see lots of people wearing them, but I do respect your right not to.

I do roll my eyes when I see that the local bus company has put a poppy on the front of all their buses. I think remember day should be solemn, and about all those whose lives have been lost to conflict. Makes me feel a bit uneasy when it becomes a bit too, i don’t know how to describe it, tacky?

You can respect people without taking part in an act of collective commemoration.

You can be grateful to a young man who sacrificed himself as a Spitfire pilot while rejecting the actions of British armed forces in Kenya and Afghanistan, or closer to home in Derry, Ballymurphy or Springhill.

If you have only known the British army as your protector, I can see why you would be grateful. But even for the people of the UK, that hasn't always been the case, even in living memory. People who have experienced intimidation, persecution, violence and brutality at the hands of British armed forces cannot be called ungrateful if they don't take part in blanket acts of praise and commemoration. I have stopped taking part in these same acts because of the pressure put on people to conform.

Do whatever the hell you like

Wars were fought for our freedoms, including the general freedom to express yourself which of course includes whether or not to mark Remembrance Day (whether by Poppy appeal, a formal act such as the Silence, other act, or nothing at all)

Wars were fought for our freedoms

I think this is just a lie we have been sold. Violence doesn’t solve any problems. It just makes things worse. Look at Afghanistan.

Violence is an attempt to impose your will on someone else by force. It’s the opposite of freedom.