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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To home educate my 12 year old before she is permanently excluded from school?

73 replies

JoanneH12 · 31/10/2023 02:29

Hi all. I have one daughter (13) who is home educated due to severe mental health problems and another (12) who is still on roll at school. My 12 year old is really struggling. She had major surgery last year and was off school for 4 months. Since she has returned to school she has been suspended atleast once a week for 'persitant disruptive behaviour'. She has ADHD/ODD and finds school very difficult. She will truant lessons, refuse to listen, walk out of class, refuse to go to isolation etc. Last week she returned to school following a suspension on Thursday and was suspended again the same day.

Her behaviour at home has always been very disruptive. She will shout, swear, throw things, throw furniture, hit out etc. If I make a simple request such as "can you put your pyjamas on please" she will scream along the lines of 'go and fucking kill yourself you fat bitch'. It is constant and exhausting. She has had counselling, family therapy, she had a mental health key worker she saw regularly and she has seen a psychiatrist a number of times. The psychiatrist always wrote in reports that she 'has very little understanding' however he never elaborated on this.

As to not drip feed information, I have bipolar 1 and therefore have the support of the community mental health team, a care coordinator and a psychiatrist. My eldest daughter is showing traits/signs of both mania and depression however she is too young to be officially diagnosed. She also has severe anxiety.

Does anyone have any advice? I'm half tempted to deregister her and home educate her alongside my older daughter before she gets permanently expelled (which has been mentioned) as I am worried if she is permanently expelled it will affect her future chances greatly. However, her behaviour at home is so challenging I'm just not sure. Any thoughts? Thank you

OP posts:
AbbeyGailsParty · 31/10/2023 02:50

That’s a lot to cope with every day. The home schooling might work with the two girls or they might clash dreadfully , your old DDs routine is disrupted and neither benefits.
What will the LA offer if the school agree your younger daughter can no longer attend? Would there be any extra support for you?
Sorry, I’ve got no answers.

curaçao · 31/10/2023 03:02

Yes.it is only a matter of time before she is permanantly exvluded

MrsTerryPratchett · 31/10/2023 03:05

Her behaviour at home has always been very disruptive. She will shout, swear, throw things, throw furniture, hit out etc. If I make a simple request such as "can you put your pyjamas on please" she will scream along the lines of 'go and fucking kill yourself you fat bitch'. It is constant and exhausting.

You must understand that you can't do anything approaching education if this behaviour is constant.

But she will eventually be excluded.

Are there any alternative schooling options? Can the school or services suggest anything? Because all that will happen if you home educate is that home will be unbearable for all of you.

StephanieLampshade · 31/10/2023 03:12

It doesn't sound though that she can be home educated. Effectively she'd be dropping out of any education.

Being expelled isn't what's going to effect her future...she is essentially unemployable while this behaviour continues.

You can't protect her from the consequences of her actions.

Youre likely to get much more support and referral to appropriate provision (a residential school for children with special needs for example) if you continue to work with the education system and local authority?

Has she had a needs assessment?

Malariahilaria · 31/10/2023 03:18

Sounds like she has a PDA profile. My sympathy as my ds is like this however we took legal advice and had him signed off sick with GP support to prevent expulsion whilst we finalise a place in a special school. If you take her out of the system the council no longer has a responsibility to educate her if she's expelled they still do. I would seek legal advice before removing her completely as it doesn't sound like she'd be amenable to you homeschooling her and it would be disruptive to your other DC.

Morph22010 · 31/10/2023 03:26

I wouldnt if you home educate you are taking over responsibility for her education and it doesn’t sound although that would be successful. If she is permanently excluded then there are responsibilities that the la still have to provide her with an education. Are you having reintegration meetings after every exclusion, what are the school putting in place to avoid further exclusions after the meetings? Does she have an ehcp?

Morph22010 · 31/10/2023 03:27

curaçao · 31/10/2023 03:02

Yes.it is only a matter of time before she is permanantly exvluded

This is really bad advice, don’t deregister on the threat/ fear of permanent exclusion.

cultureplanet · 31/10/2023 05:48

What is your background? Do you think you could adequately educate your daughter?

do not deregister your child op. It sounds awful atm but I suspect de registering and then trying to home educate will be nothing more than pure unadulterated hell

cultureplanet · 31/10/2023 05:48

Is she on meds?

FizzyLaser · 31/10/2023 05:53

I’m not sure she will be expelled. It’s virtually impossible these days without them
Finding an alternative setting for her

Lastchancechica · 31/10/2023 06:23

Op. I don’t think you will cope. So I would book an appointment with the head, and ask that they refer her to a specialist school. This is the answer. It’s too much with your mental health as it is, to home educate both children with no support.

twinkletoesimnot · 31/10/2023 06:31

What does the SENCO say?
Does she have an EHCP?

I teach year 3/4 and have a little girl in my class like this. I can imagine high school being much more difficult for her in terms of expectations and demands that she can't control. When she is calm and rational what does she say she wants to happen? Does she have any friends?
Future aspirations?

FizzyLaser · 31/10/2023 06:38

Lastchancechica · 31/10/2023 06:23

Op. I don’t think you will cope. So I would book an appointment with the head, and ask that they refer her to a specialist school. This is the answer. It’s too much with your mental health as it is, to home educate both children with no support.

Hollow laugh.
yes it’s as easy as that.

Pinkglittery · 31/10/2023 06:44

I work with SEN kids, personally I would advise strongly against deregistering her. If she's on roll at a school her education is their responsibility and if she gets excluded she will be the responsibility of the local authority. There are lots of different education options, she could go to a SEN school or go to a private training provider that does non mainstream education.
Once you deregister her, her education is your responsibility alone and the likelihood of you getting any help with that is very slim. Personally what I would do is have a meeting with the school, ask them what they plan to do with your daughter and her educational requirements, insist she is not excluded and ask them to involve the local authority to find a solution. You have to be a complete pain in the arse and push and push to get what is best for your dd, even if it means keeping her home and saying the school won't provide the correct environment for your dd to attend. She shouldn't be held to the same rules regarding exclusion etc due to her SEN.

Pinkglittery · 31/10/2023 06:46

Does she have an EHCP? If not you need one, now. Vitally important, but again, involves lots of pushing by you.

jeaux90 · 31/10/2023 06:47

Is she on meds? Does she have an EHCP? I wouldn't take her out no.

Merseymum992 · 31/10/2023 06:48

I think it's clear that you need help disciplining her

OneLittleFinger · 31/10/2023 06:50

Could there be any link between your eldest's depression and anxiety and your youngest's behaviour? If so, you'd be sacrificing her education and mental well-being for her sister, and I doubt it would be the first time you have prioritised her sister, out of necessity. Tough choice, but I'd keep the youngest in school if you can.

Biasquia · 31/10/2023 06:51

I think HE is a recipe for disaster for everyone’s mental health with this profile. You all need respite from that level of behaviour. One of my friends is in a very similar situation and it is incredibly difficult, there is absolutely no doubt. Are there any SEN provisions around? I would imagine she is so far behind from her time off post surgery that lessons are awful for her too but that is no one’s fault, it just is that way. It is a very tricky set of circumstances but I don’t think you should have to do it alone.

stoptheasshat · 31/10/2023 06:56

Merseymum992 · 31/10/2023 06:48

I think it's clear that you need help disciplining her

Wow. Clearly not a SEN parent.
My daughter is very like OP's daughter and we have pushed and pushed following multiple exclusions and she ended up in a residential SEMH school.
@Merseymum992 just try discipline a child who doesn't act on consequences. Just think before posting "better parent than thou" comments please.

stoptheasshat · 31/10/2023 06:58

Though I note you say help is required disciplining her ...

Morph22010 · 31/10/2023 07:00

stoptheasshat · 31/10/2023 06:58

Though I note you say help is required disciplining her ...

And where does this help come from? Mersey mum is clearly not an Sen parent who has asked for help or she’d know there is none available without a massive fight

WonderingWanda · 31/10/2023 07:01

It sounds really tough op but given how she behaves at home I see little benefit in deregistering her for home education. As others have said, her need is too great for you or mainstream school to manage and the beat way to get the support she needs is to stay in the school system. It sounds like she needs much more specialist help but I know as a teacher that there isn't much of that available right now. Even if school is not able to meet her educational needs either and no specialist provision is available she will be getting out of the house, having some social time, keeping a routine and importantly giving you a break. It's shit and I wish I could offer a better solution but I'm not sure there is one at the moment so please go with what makes life easiest on all of you rather than trying to avoid the 'stigma' of exclusion. No one ever asks if you've been excluded on a job application and she has plenty of time to nail down some skills and qualifications.

HBGKC · 31/10/2023 07:06

Is their father around? That sounds like an impossible burden to carry alone, OP.

I would agree with the posters saying that, by officially electing to home-educate, you are taking back the responsibility of educating your child from the LEA, thereby cutting your daughter off from any right to any help; it sounds like you need help.

Soontobe60 · 31/10/2023 07:09

FizzyLaser · 31/10/2023 06:38

Hollow laugh.
yes it’s as easy as that.

Show quote history

It actually IS as easy as that.
OP, your DD needs alternative provision. You also need some professional support here. Contact SENDIAS at your LA (it may be called something else where you are, but it’s basically the SEN advisory service within the LA) and tell them what’s been happening. Also, I’m assuming your DD has an Early Help open and the school have referred her to behaviour support services? School has to show what they have done to support your DD other than excluding her. Push for a place at AP - it’s the best way you have of her being able to continue in education.
If all else fails and she IS permanently excluded, then alternative provisions will have to be found by the LA, but you have to be pushy! Perm ex could be the best thing to happen to her at this moment.
Is she on medication for her ADHD? If not, perhaps that could be explored?