To home educate my 12 year old before she is permanently excluded from school?

[JoanneH12]

Hi all. I have one daughter (13) who is home educated due to severe mental health problems and another (12) who is still on roll at school. My 12 year old is really struggling. She had major surgery last year and was off school for 4 months. Since she has returned to school she has been suspended atleast once a week for 'persitant disruptive behaviour'. She has ADHD/ODD and finds school very difficult. She will truant lessons, refuse to listen, walk out of class, refuse to go to isolation etc. Last week she returned to school following a suspension on Thursday and was suspended again the same day.

Her behaviour at home has always been very disruptive. She will shout, swear, throw things, throw furniture, hit out etc. If I make a simple request such as "can you put your pyjamas on please" she will scream along the lines of 'go and fucking kill yourself you fat bitch'. It is constant and exhausting. She has had counselling, family therapy, she had a mental health key worker she saw regularly and she has seen a psychiatrist a number of times. The psychiatrist always wrote in reports that she 'has very little understanding' however he never elaborated on this.

As to not drip feed information, I have bipolar 1 and therefore have the support of the community mental health team, a care coordinator and a psychiatrist. My eldest daughter is showing traits/signs of both mania and depression however she is too young to be officially diagnosed. She also has severe anxiety.

Does anyone have any advice? I'm half tempted to deregister her and home educate her alongside my older daughter before she gets permanently expelled (which has been mentioned) as I am worried if she is permanently expelled it will affect her future chances greatly. However, her behaviour at home is so challenging I'm just not sure. Any thoughts? Thank you

Draw a line under school.
The need to push a student through school no matter what cost is extremely damaging.
Some colleges take them at 14, meanwhile focus on something daughter enjoys and work on that. Some students who jump ship regarding school early go on to create small business for themselves, could daughters do something together ? Are they creative, even putting leaflets through door, can they help in neighbourhood could be a start.
You need to think this could be a fresh start, a new beginning of a chapter, not the end. Encourage her to turn it around, she can do it.

I wouldn’t de register her L, you need support.
Ask your current school whether they can get support from the local PRU.

No. Keep her in school and use this as evidence to her her into specialist provision so she at least has a chance of a future.........which is what we did with my son. It was lifechanging for him and us.

Would recommend looking into alternative more specialist provision. Home education would increase the demand on you a great deal and carers need to be looked after and have a break too.

This sounds so hard. Is she worse at school or equally troubled at both. Just wondering if gentle 1:1 homeschooling might be less overwhelming and so she will be a little calmer.

How does your DD feel about school? Her friends? is she on medication for the ADHD? Does anxiety/overwhelm/stress make the ODD worse? What she like during holidays? Do her oppositional traits ease when there are less demands placed on her? What sort of home Ed would you do? Child led based on her interests? A replica of the national curriculum sat at a computer? Will she be out and about mixing with other home Ed kids? Experiencing different home Ed sessions/skills? Animal care on a farm, craft groups or whatever. What does she think of home Ed? What are her interests? how do you feel about home Ed? Would this be too much for your mental health?

Personally I’d ring the LA and find out what alternative provisions they have for children not managing mainstream due to behavioural issues. Many LAs have a PRU (local pupil referral unit), although there maybe other options (local college sometimes from 14). It’s likely things will need to be quite extreme for a PRI to be considered but they are often great places, with a small set up and staff who really understand and help the kids.

sit her down and discuss all the options you’re happy to provide and ask her what she would prefer.

Has your 12 Yr old ever been tested to see whether she is on the autistic spectrum?
If not, it may be worth doing so. To get a diagnosis you would need a referral from your GP to a clinical psychologist.
Has her school not considered that a Pupil Referral Unit (PRU) might suit your daughter's needs better than mainstream school? The classes are much smaller and the staff are geared to dealing with behaviour issues.
I really feel for you...

Part of the problem with the current system is now it’s all academies schools(that are in receipt of funding for a pupil) have to pay to access support or placements through PRU or other alternative provisions that may be more suited to the child. We were different as my child was constantly being excluded in key stage one so much younger but the school wouldn’t even access the specialist autism teaching service as it came at a cost. The only way we could get support was to get an ehcp (through appeal as initially turned down due la saying mainstream not done enough yet) and get a move to specialist

Clearly, she is not getting the right support currently at school. The question is can you work with school to get better support in place or is it possible to get an alternative educational placement. Although a bit younger at the time ds1's behaviour improved vastly as soon as he was placed in a school that met his needs both at school and at home. The sad thing was that he had to be permanently excluded before this was achievable. School unfortunately is incredibly stressful for some young people and the challenging behaviour is often a consequence of this extreme stress.

If she doesn’t have an ehcp appeal for an assessment asap, there is a model letter on ipsea website. The diagnosis and the exclusions alone will be enough to meet the criteria for assessment regardless of any other evidence you may to may not have, the la may well turn you down but it’s enough to meet criteria if appealed

My advice would be to start the ehcp process if you havent already. This process will identify what support she needs, and help decide the best way to offer that support. But you do have to be very acrive in pushing though with it. There are charities like IPSEA and the LA Sendiass who have guides or can support this process.

It takes a minimum 26 week so its very likely you could be excluded whilt is being prepared and it could be finalised at a pru or at home.

It might be that EOTAS is more suitable than school or that, one the support is in place school is fine.

I would look at meds. Whikst cahms are overloaded, we have found that 'school placement is at genuine risk" is one of their triage factors.

She needs an educational needs assessment and plan. The school can help push this with you. She can then go to a school that is more able to cope with her needs and help her cope too. Places are few and far between but pls press for this for her.

Too many kids with SEN are lost in our education system and don't achieve their full potential.

I home educate my asd/pda and severe adhd kid- obviously you know from home educating one how hard it is.

Will your daughters get on if they are together all the time? I feel like you could just end up in a 24/7 war zone which would be awful for all of you.

Is she on medication for her adhd? It has been a life changer for my son.

Do you already have a low/no demand house and parenting style?

What is your daughters take on things? Does she want to be home educated? I think whatever you do needs to be guided by what is in her best interests balanced against what she actually wants.

Agree with above poster about PDA profile.

But I wouldn't de register. Then the onus becomes on you to provide her education.

If she doesn't already an ehcp you need to speak to school. She's needs an assessment and a suitable education.

But I cannot reiterate enough not to de register. It's better for her to be perm excluded so the La have to find an alternative provider. I think you are going to suffer too many consequences to your and your other DDs Mah having her home everyday

Doesn’t sound like she respects you or listens to you, how are you planning to educate her? Perhaps she needs excluding and going to a pupil referral unit?

When my friends child was excluded, he got a place in a SEND school actually able to meet his additional needs. Are you sure it would be the worst thing?

I hate to say it, but the way you describe her behaviour at home makes me think it's highly unlikely she'll actually get much education at home, because she won't accept it.

Don't deregister. If you don't have an EHCP yet then please push for one. Do you have a family support worker who can support you with this? It sounds like she needs an SEMH school. Getting permanently excluded won't ruin her life chances. If she goes to a PRU they will be able to push for a SEMH school provision for you.

not rtft but if she doesn't already have an EHCP, look into applying for one yourself (you don't need to wait for a school to do it) and then look into EOTAS (education other than at school). If you electively deregister the LA have no obligation to support her any further, whereas with an EHCP that contains EOTAS, the LA have a legal duty to source the provision which is usually 1 to 1 tuition.
I'm not suggesting this is a quick easy process, it absolutely isn't, it is a fight which may require you getting to tribunal depending on your LA and how they interpret EOTAS policy (if they even have one). But it is something to consider. Also there is good free support out there, ie ipsea, Sunshine Support, Contact amongst others.

Has she got an EHCP? You can apply for it if school are slow or unwilling.

Often things need to hit crisis point to get needs met and for suitable provisions to be put in place.

agree with looking into autism and pda

“Draw a line under the school”

this girl is 12

your name is apt

I agree with most others, don’t deregister and EHE. It is often easier, although not easy, to get support when you remain in the system. It is easier for professionals to sweep DD’s needs under the carpet if you EHE, and will say you are making suitable alternative arrangements. But if she remains on roll, the LA retain responsibility. Easier said than done, but try not to worry if DD is permanently excluded it provides evidence of unmet needs and means DD will receive alternative provision.

Request an EHCNA using IPSEA’s model letter. An EHCP can provide support far in excess of what would otherwise be available, opens the door to placements DD wouldn’t otherwise be able to attend, and EOTAS if receiving the provision in a school is inappropriate.

In the meantime, if DD can’t attend school because of her MH/SEN the LA has a statutory duty to ensure she receives a suitable full-time education under s19 of the Education Act 1996.

I would also request an EHCNA for your 12y/o. An EHCP can provide therapeutic support she wouldn’t otherwise receive.

Be careful with SENDIASS. Some are good, but many repeat the LA’s unlawful policies. IPSEA and SOSSEN are better for accurate information.

It takes a minimum 26 week so it’s very likely you could be excluded whilt is being prepared and it could be finalised at a pru or at home.

With a few limited exceptions, statutory timescales state if the LA is going to issue an EHCP, they must finalise within a maximum of 20 weeks. If the LA breaches the timescales, they can be enforced.

Op you provide such little detail in your OP as to make it very difficult to actually provide you with guidance

Agree and SENCO xx