To home educate my 12 year old before she is permanently excluded from school?

[JoanneH12]

Hi all. I have one daughter (13) who is home educated due to severe mental health problems and another (12) who is still on roll at school. My 12 year old is really struggling. She had major surgery last year and was off school for 4 months. Since she has returned to school she has been suspended atleast once a week for 'persitant disruptive behaviour'. She has ADHD/ODD and finds school very difficult. She will truant lessons, refuse to listen, walk out of class, refuse to go to isolation etc. Last week she returned to school following a suspension on Thursday and was suspended again the same day.

Her behaviour at home has always been very disruptive. She will shout, swear, throw things, throw furniture, hit out etc. If I make a simple request such as "can you put your pyjamas on please" she will scream along the lines of 'go and fucking kill yourself you fat bitch'. It is constant and exhausting. She has had counselling, family therapy, she had a mental health key worker she saw regularly and she has seen a psychiatrist a number of times. The psychiatrist always wrote in reports that she 'has very little understanding' however he never elaborated on this.

As to not drip feed information, I have bipolar 1 and therefore have the support of the community mental health team, a care coordinator and a psychiatrist. My eldest daughter is showing traits/signs of both mania and depression however she is too young to be officially diagnosed. She also has severe anxiety.

Does anyone have any advice? I'm half tempted to deregister her and home educate her alongside my older daughter before she gets permanently expelled (which has been mentioned) as I am worried if she is permanently expelled it will affect her future chances greatly. However, her behaviour at home is so challenging I'm just not sure. Any thoughts? Thank you

A million times do not deregister her. Schools and LAs are massively failing students, but the provisions are out there. You just need luck and serious determination to be a pain in the arse until you get her in the right place.

I have recently worked in a special school and currently work in an alternative provision. Kids are being given a chance to flourish in my current setting.

last week they visited a garden centre to learn about turtles, painted pumpkins, watched a marvel movie and wrote a review and had maths sessions. They are studying for 5 GCSEs and there are max of 8 in each class.

Mine is linked to a mainstream school so you would just put the mainstream school on a job application.
I work with my students all the time filling in applications and they just put the schools they attended, I’ve never seen one that asks if you have been permanently excluded.

What are summer holidays like with both DC at home?

Update - we had a reintegration meeting at 8.30 following the most recent suspension....she was suspended in the meeting and is now back home.

She was basically saying she is stressed in school and in lessons and therefore refusing to go/saying she will walk out so they said they can't reintegrate her. I don't know where to go from here.

She does not currently have an EHCP but I will be pushing for one. She does have an IHCP.

What have they tried so far?

At my school (mainstream comprehensive) we have DC like your daughter. By this point we would have:

Given time out card
Offered time in SEN space or student resource space
One to ones with form tutor/head of year

Have they tried anything like that?

Are they looking into alternative provision? Have they sought any advice from e.g. within the academy chain (if relevant) and/or the local authority?

Is she getting any post surgical support from any health services? I am wondering if e.g. hospital school service could be contacted for advice.

Also we would have booked her in with school counsellor

It sounds like the school aren't meeting her needs, does she have plans etc? What about moving her to a more suitable school that specialises in ADHD? I don't know processes etc but I'd imagine that's at the root of her behaviour.

If she has been suspended again is she being illegally excluded? Contact the inclusion officer at LA to ask for their intervention and alternative educational provision on the meantime. How was she prior to her operation?

All of this

I worked in a secondary school and have worked with children like your daughter.

If she keeps getting repeated suspensions then it becomes clear that she is not able to access mainstream without support. The more suspensions she gets the more evidence there is that she is not coping without additional support.

That evidence helps when the school or you are applying for an EHCP,

As she doesn't have an EHCP I'd suggest making an appointment with the SENCO at the school to discuss it, because clearly she has additional needs.

In my area, and in many areas now, there is an agreement between schools so a student who might otherwise be permanently excluded (expelled) will be given the chance to try another school.

This is sometimes called a managed move. If she's getting repeated suspensions then the next step in the process would be the trying a new school.

This is very successful for some students, and less so for others.

If that is not successful then there are a few possibilities:

My school have offered some home tutoring for students who are too anxious to come in
Some schools may also have a Sen unit where she can work and not be in mainstream classes.

A lot of this depends on funding - and funding needs an EHCP.

If you deregister none of this has to be provided.

At the moment the school is failing your child. The suspensions are evidence of that. She needs support to access education - ask for an EHCP.

I wouldn’t. It will impact your oldest and yourself too much. Given her behaviour. If she’s excluded will you be able to access more specialist help for her? Maybe that needs to happen.

hugs op sounds like you’ve a lot in your plate x

I just want to send love and support.

I teach a couple of students who fit this profile (ADHD and ODD, also autism as well). They spend more time out of the classroom than in, not necessarily external inclusion, we also have internal inclusion ie a space they can use in school but there are no specialist teachers there. It’s really more ‘babysitting’.

My only conclusion is that suitable provision is difficult to come by. Also, keeping them at home is not an option because it would be ‘too much’ for one person.

Anecdotally I have heard alternative provision can work very well (this is from one of my neighbours who has had 3 children in special schools) and there was a report on the Beeb the other day from a young man who had graduated Cambridge having spent his secondary education in the PRU.

I urge you to work with the school on finding alternatives for her and to keep your options open until they help you find somewhere better than Mainstream.

Hiya, I really feel for you, you must be absolutely drained. You need to call a meeting with school, for your daughters sake. Her current school currently cannot meet her needs and they should be telling local authorities this. If she has an EHCP in place you can call an emergency review meeting so a new appropriate placement can be looked for, they have a legal responsibility to do the best for your child. if you don't have an EHCP you need to start the process (with school)asap.

Oh please. She hasn't said she's diagnosed.
Also - I was bullied to (almost) death by another girl at school whose parents did NOTHING and blamed her ADHD.
SEN doesn't mean cruel, violence or rudeness. Disgusting of you to think it does.

You've got some good advice here OP. What @Pinkglittery and others said. If they are not involved the LA inclusion officer etc. Do not deregister but she needs alternative provision and further investigations for ASD/PDA etc. Good luck. You have a lot on your plate.

You don’t need a diagnosis to be classed as having SEN.

Have you read the statutory permanent exclusion and suspension guidance? If not, you should so you know what the school and LA should be doing and what is lawful/unlawful. IPSEA explains the rules too, here.

She says in he OP that her daughter has ADHD/ODD. Your ignorance is showing. Mainstream is clearly not the right setting for this child but she may well thrive in an alternative provision with the right support.
I'm sorry that you had such an awful experience at school, it sounds like you were failed.

OP, what LA are you in? Maybe some posters on here can give you specific links to access SEND assistance.
Regarding an EHCP, you can start the process yourself. Some advice here.
https://www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment

I disagree with others who have urged you to discard the home ed option out of hand. True, in your daughter's case it's really hard to predict how that would pan out.

However, for some kids, incredibly disruptive behaviour at home and school is caused primarily because school is so hugely stressful for them. For these kids, being taken out of school altogether - with no immediate fear of being sent back - can be a huge relief and can result in a massive improvement in behaviour. It is possible that things in your family may get much better if you deregister your 12yo and tell her she is having a year out of school.

I don't know which educational approach you use with your older child, and whether you are very familiar with unschooling? This can be a good solution for children who are overwhelmed and who lash out. I've certainly met parents who said their kids were very violent until they came out of school, and you'd never know it was the same child a few months later! The key is not to try to replicate school at home, but instead to encourage the child to do whatever makes them feel good about themselves. Once they are on a more even keel, if you want to re-introduce formal adult-led learning, you can do that gently, experimenting to find the right way. But some children thrive on unschooling indefinitely.

On the other hand, some kids' challenges run deeper than school-based trauma. Home education is sometimes a magic bullet, and sometimes not. You have a lot on your plate, and home educating both kids could prove impossible in the long run. Maybe you could try it for this year and see what happens.

You are under an enormous amount of pressure and you have my sympathies but I don't think home ed is in your daughter's best interests and it could seriously disrupt your own health and well-being to try. You need an emergency review of EHCP as her needs are clearly not currently being met but you are not in a position to meet them solo so please don't take on that burden.

I believe home Ed is an excellent option for many but in your shoes I’d hold out in school, directly arrange the EHCP myself, explore more suitable options the LA and present school can offer. Some schools try to offrole pupils rather than fulfil their educational responsibility or outsourcing that responsibility.

She doesn’t have an ehcp, advice above has explained how to apply for one

If you are successfully home educating your 13-year-old then I really wouldn't advise you to bring the younger child into the mix. It's not fair on your older daughter.

I think home educating your younger daughter would be absolutely impossible and you will be taking all responsibility for it. I don't think that's a good idea at all.