To ask another 'class' question?

[PonyLo]

I know.
But i was reading another thread and it brought this to mind. People keep blithering on about it on MN, but the topic is often about signifiers such as clothes, house, job, schools, consumer choices and such.

So I had this thought - if a huge amount of people were just placed together in a big group wearing only a simple cotton dressing gown and no make up, could you tell what *social group they belonged to?

Like the bare bones?
My guess is that probably not! You might try to pick 'hair style' but I have found that varies wildly (I am middle class with a good amount of natural frizz). Which kind of confirms my suspicion that it's all about perception, rather than fact.

*'Social Group' is a much preferable description since it disqualifies attempts to use hierarchical judgements.

I don't have a job. It is what it is. Thanks for your 'gentle reminder'.

In your efforts not to be horrible (bless you!) You've inadvertently been incredibly patronising. How dreadfully unfortunate!

Can't face reading this whole thread, but would like to thank @dontbenastyhaveapasty. Realistic, data-driven posts are much needed amidst all this desperate denial that class exists in Britain, and is materially significant.

I've found the middle classes almost phobic about any discussion of the class system; people even get angry if you try to point out we are not equal in opportunities & outcomes. That stops anything getting done about it, of course.

As to the many PPs assuming "lower class" means "less intelligent" - what??

@Chickenkeev - 'have a job' here means "have difficulty'. It's nothing to do with employment.

Officially lost so 🤨

I don't have a job. It is what it is. Thanks for your 'gentle reminder'.

Well, I didn't bring it up and you continue to misunderstand and misrepresent me; I can't help that. I think that I've been polite and sympathetic to to you and given you the opportunity of an out, by suggesting that you may have quoted me in error.

Probably best if we ignore one another.

I'm going to hazard a guess, they'll absolutely deny.

I think that although you might not be able to put people neatly into one of 3 classes, it would be relatively easy to place people socially.

Seeing as the idea of there being 3 classes is a bit outmoded anyway, it would be tricky I agree. But I'm pretty sure I could place someone's social position pretty quickly, especially after a chat.

People only get cross about this sort of thing if there is an implication that one class is better than another one. And that implication is often there-look at any thread about education. They are always full of middle class people looking for ways to keep their children away from working class children. It's not phrased that crudely, of course.....

So because I carry some weight and a few tattoos I must be working class?

Codswallop

I reckon people would guess correctly about 80% of the time, based on height, weight, hair, piercing and tattoos. If you were allowed to move or talk, then this percentage would increase further. This is assuming that the judging would be done in private, so people wouldn’t feel like they were being rude.

Incidentally, in answer to the OP-yes, I think you often could tell. Adding in the first name would up the accuracy.

@1stworldissues "So because I carry some weight and a few tattoos I must be working class? Codswallop"

Weight, I agree. Codswallop. Tattoos? Up to a point. Certainly less of an indicator than it used to be.

I think teeth might be an indicator, if they are really white veneers?

I know/have known a few very posh people and I think they can be identified by their chins. Posh people (posh not rich) have a certain chin shape but I can't describe it, I just know. 😄

I think youre wrong about teeth not being an indicator - they totally are given challenges accessing affordable dentistry. There are also different vibes across the same class band in different areas. Eg Essex v Surrey. I also think you could pick out household income pretty accurately at an early age among children which is sadder in many ways.

The reality is that the lowest socioeconomic groups face many more health issues and have fewer educational and economic opportunities than those of higher socioeconomic groups.

But thanks to the social mobility in the mid to late 20th century and the idea of a meritocracy there are plenty who identify as working class who do not belong to these disadvantaged lower socioeconomic groups. And people get offended one way or another as we've seen on here because how they identify does not ncessarily reflect reality (e.g. see Victoria Beckham in the Netflix doc).

But nothing will be done to change things for the poorest in society while we argue about class.

more perks than myself

Middle class, but uneducated, op??

I am slightly in awe of the shallowness of the thread. Why on earth would it matter?

These threads always seem to describe upper mc people when discussing mc signifiers.

And plenty of mc people have fake eyebrows, botox etc.

I think life experiences, as well as class, can influence how a person behaves in different situations - I am quite adaptable and have been able to fit into various completely different circles over the years, without anyone saying or me feeling like I'm obviously out of place. It also helps to remember that we're all humans with hopes, dreams and fears, whether we're high achieving university professors or barristers, someone struggling with addiction and or mental health, or the whole range in between.

I am working class, my family were working class, but I've always made the best of opportunities and the education offered to me, and was lucky to have a supportive mum (dad passed away when I was young). I didn't have some of the privileges many MN'ers appear to have had, but that's life, and I cannot change it!

Lower MC, state school educated, thinks they are special (and v. v. middle class) because their house is worth a lot.

Unfair to judge someone from a couple of forum posts, but I knew a lot of people like that in the SE. Pretty much everybody, until gentrification brought with it more traditionally MC types (and priced out the likes of me...)

This is why kids wear school uniform. Noone can tell the difference between any of them being rich or poor. They are equal.

Of course....you could work out a class by the car they get dropped off in, their shoes and rucksack and pencil case and hair .....but without all that people look equal.

Of course it people's perception tho. When inwas at uni a boy was in my lecture class who was scruffy looking. Hair a mess and jogging bottoms and jumper....no labels. Turned out his he lived in a massive house and his family were super rich. So kinda learned from that you just never know people.

But BA is working class. Highly successful, and WC. The two aren’t incompatible. And his social class is evident in how he speaks. The Phoenix used to have a column called ‘De Diary of a Nortsoide Taoiseach.’ Everyone from Dermot Morgan to Mario Rosenstock did his accent.

Yes, OP, I would be able to tell with a high degree of success. I’m from a very deprived WC background and went to Oxford, so have been exposed to a lot of the class ladder and am good at reading social class as a result. I think that I met someone like me, it would be immediately clear from my looks, accent, clothes, vocabulary etc that I was educated WC and now leading a fairly MC life.

@Luckyduc there's no uniform at my son's secondary and you cannot really tell who is 'rich' or 'poor' tbh - you can tell who is nore interested in clothes/fashion/style and who is not though.