To think that some parents like to label their children as dyslexic/dyscalculic/dyspraxic or as kinaesthetic learners....

[MrsSchadenfreude]

...rather than accept the fact that their child might not be particularly bright/academic, and by so doing this detracts from children who genuinely are eg dyslexic?

When I was at school a friend of mines brother was diagnosed with dyslexia, it was a tough time for his mum tryign to get the dx and awful for him as the stigma was massive back then.

His sister who wasn't particularly 'bright' and tbh couldn't really be bothered was tested for dyslexia as was his brother (they were close family friends so it was something I knew rather than something that was common knowledge) both the sister and brother were not dyslexic, yet the sister told everyone she was for years, she probably still does now, because she thought it got her out of having to try.

That was an 11yr old girl though, not a parent and though I do think some parents will label ther child with a dx they haven't actually received from anyone to detract from the fact that they arent very bright or are naughty/disruptive etc the only people the parents are hurting are their children.

People act accordingly if a child is said to have some form or other of SN, usually in the way that the particular SN would need treating so to claim your child has SN when they don't isn't going to help them get the proper assistance and would surely make it worse?

I doubt very much that any of the parents who do stick a label on for ease actually have a dx or the extra help they expect though, from what I know it's hard enough for peopel whose children do have problems to get them sorted.

Oh and the 'one person' who would diagnose them would be either a specially trained teacher or an ed Pysch. Could they have been down playing their diagnosis out of embarassment because they predicted your dubious opinions?

Everyone wants their child to be better than average. That's perfectly natural. They also want to feel they did a really good job of helping them to read, stimulating their minds and so on.

So if their child is falling behind or behaving poorly they may well feel shame and guilt (which is quite unfair of course and that's where the fault lies if any)

So if someone says "well it may not be his fault. He might be borderline dyslexic" I could understand a parent feeling a little secret relief. After all a diagnosis wouldn't change the child. It's just a bit of paper. All that would change would be a) they need not blame themselves and b) that he might get extra help which would mean he would catch up.

So without going out and checking personally I'd be as sure as I could be that it must happen.

So if the question is "would some parents attach a label to their child without proof" then I'd say that I'm sure some would.

But snowleopard who would call a child 'thick' or 'stupid' apart from other children? (who would do this regardless of any diagnosis if they wanted to).

Children who struggle academically but are not dyslexic will stll get extra help and support if the school thinks it necessary, and can still get diagnosed if it is severe, with either 'global delay' or 'non-specific learning difficulties', and they will get help and support for this. I guess some parents may not like these diagnoses and prefer to tell people their kid is dyslexia, but surely these parents are fe and far between?

Actually Grey I don't think every parent wants their child to do better than average, at least not academically. I certainly don't. What's more important to me is that my DS is confident and secure and has a happy fulfilling life. How he does academically is not necessarily relevant to this.

There is actually a link between having dyslexia and having low self esteem though, and I'll do anything to make sure DS doesn't suffer from low self-esteem.

Does it matter??

I have a child who IS dyspraxic, and I've had no end of people tell me he is just bit slow, or blame his home environment prior to getting his dx. It has been very difficult to get his dx, for both of us.

I could easily have been assumed to be making excuses for him, and he still wouldn't be getting the help that he needs. It is unfair and risky to make such assumptions.

I think what parents want is for their dc to fulfill their academic potential as far as possible, whatever that potential may be.

Good post Chops

Message withdrawn

I wonder, are we saying all children who don't do well at school have some sort of condition or 'special need' (leaving aside those who are statemented and clearly do have a genuine special need)?

Surely there must be children who just aren't very bright/academic/whatever you want to call it? Normal distribution of IQ in the general population would include some people of 130 or more and some people of less than 100 (i.e. less than average). Are we arguing that ALL those scoring less than 100 have some sort of specific problem, rather than just not being the sharpest tools in the box?

I know IQ is rough and ready, btw. But surely there are some people who are less intelligent than others, just as there are some people who are less sporty than others. And the less intelligent don't all have a specific problem, I'd guess.

Doesn't mean the less bright children are worthless, or not good at other things apart from IQ tests - if I had to take an equivalent of IQ for sportiness or physical co-ordination I'm sure I'd be less than average. But I don't blame my lack of sporting prowess on having a particular need, I'm just not very good at it!

& shouldn't extra help be given according to needs rather than particular diagnoses?

the diagnosis could help inform the support given but the university example of giving considerable financial support to those who pass a dyslexia test regardless of need or means seems very unfair

edam I don't think anyone's saying that all children who don't do well at school have a special need, some children are just a bit below the national averager and struggle a bit, but at school it shouldn't be a problem if the teacher is good and differenciates well, as the work will be aimed at their level. But for chldren who are significantly below the nat.av there are diagnoses they can get such as global delay or non-specific learning difficulties, that enable them to then get the extra help and support that they need, such as one-to-one help etc.

upwind with regard to the equipment you can get at univeristy if you have SN, I'm not sure why it needs to be leans tested tbh. No one has to take all the extra equipment help on offer, I know a few people who already had good computers, so they didn't bother getting ones through the university, they just got the extra equipment like specialist software.

Obvioulsy the system can be abused a bit, but on the whole it supports people who need it, if it was means tested some people might not get the equipment and have wealthy parents who turn around and say "Well, I'm not forking out for hundreds of pounds worth of software just because you can't read fsat" or something.

The mian helping equipment is the software and extra bits and peices that go with te computer, not the computer in itself, that help dyslexics, and the university can get some of the software at a much cheaper price than someone would pay to get it themselves.

As I understand it the brain does a lot of 'rewiring' and reorganising in the first few years. The exact way it organises things would depend on genetic factors and on environment. Once it has done so you would find a natural aptitude for math at the expense of say artistic ability. Good cordination, but poor memory. If you are lucky the things you are potentially good at will outweigh those things you will struggle with.

You could still learn most things with intensive training, but in your 'poor subjects' it will always be uphill.

If we all just did what we are naturally good at that would be ok, but there are skills we must have to get by such as literacy, numeracy and the ability to organise and plan. If those are our weakest points we need all the help we can get to reach a basic standard.

That means that there are many kids who need extra help even though they do not have a specifically named disorder.

It 'could' also mean that specifically named disorders such as dyslexia are in fact extreme cases of the above rather than seperate problems.

Not that it changes anything if that's the case. It still comes down to identifying and helping those who need it most, but perhaps not drawing so many lines between kids with varying abilities.

Whenever I see a line I think of those who were just a little way the other side of it.

Overmydead, I know there are children who qualify for specific diagnoses, of course, just wondering whether ALL children below whatever level you pick are considered to have a-specific-problem-with-a-label or whether some of them are just not very bright (but of course could end up being wonderful at all sorts of non-academic things)?

Just pondering this, dh's niece passed two 11+ exams (she's on the borders of two counties) with flying colours while her little brother didn't even enter for the exam as his parents and school felt he had no chance and would be happier not 'failing' but going to a comp (although how comp it is, surrounded by grammar schools, is another question).

I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with dh's nephew, he's just not that great academically. Lovely kid but, so far, seems unlikely to get 11 A* GCSES (although who knows, maybe he will blossom at some point in the next few years).

There are definitely people who want a "label" on their children.
An (ex) friend once spent a long time telling me how her son, who was not doing well at school, was dyslexic. She had paid £500 or somehting to a "top clinic" to diagnose him and the clinic had then offered to "help" at a mere £200 a month or whatever.
I was a bit sceptical as I had been stuck with said child one day and we passed the time doing.. ANAGRAMS at which he was very good!
My DH was a bit stunned as he had sat with the boy and played Lord of the Rings role playing and reading the rules and discussing them.
DH said boy was just lazy not dyslexic.
Cue screaming match with the boys mum.

Anyway I heard through the grapevine that said boy had been put in the remedial class at school.
6 weeks later thay moved him out of the remedial class as he caught up 2 terms work in 6 weeks.
He is now top of his class.

Hmmm!
I think in this case "dyslexia" was definitely spelled "laziness".

I also think it is very unhelpful for this to happen as another friend's son truly is dyslexic and she can't afford the extra tuition.

Sometimes it depends on where the bar, or "average" is. At schools which are academically selective, for example, there are parents who think their children are dyslexic because they are nowhere near the top of the class. Whereas in reality they are doing very well compared to nat. av

Miggsie - this also happened to someone I knew with her DD, said, yes, she is dyslexic, but in top 2% of children her age IQ wise, so we can help at vast expense... "Analysis" also included allergy diagnosis by looking at child's hair

Well, actually, OMDB, they TOLD me they didn't struggle. It seems unlikely they were embarrassed to tell me the truth as they both openly boasted about the fact they were going to take the test and what they were going to get out of it. And both have waved their yellow stickers at me at essay handing in time. One said she'd always been bad at spelling, but, to my understanding, that alone does not constitute dyslexia.

To whoever said 'you don't know anything about dyslexia' yes, I know, I said in my earlier post as well as 'correct me if I'm wrong'. And I think maybe I DO have a dubious attitude. Can no one see why I might be dubious after learning about how seemingly easy it is at university to get a diagnosis and loads of financial help? Really?

I only mentioned the fact they were assessed by one person in a short test because others had said it took a long time/many assessments to get a diagnosis or a statement.

And to whoever it was that asked, one was female, the other male.

I dabbled with the idea of dyspraxia with ds1 because he was unhappy at school, nothing whatsoever to do with his academic success.
I've dropped the whole thing as there didn't seem to be much that could be done and I wasn't convinced a label would help him.

IQ is a bell curve, most kids fall in the middle (85% have IQs between 85 and 115) but being a bell curve it means 50% will be below average. Not with any special educational need, just not as bright as the average person. There is nothing wrong with this, they may be faster runners, more creative of more sensitive, but they are of below average intelligence, half the population have to be...
Mind you fwiw I personally think that while Dyslexia, ADHD, dyspraxia, aspergers etc do exist a huge % of 'diagnosed' cases are utter bullshit given to justify bad behaviour/low intelligence/clumsiness etc

I know I'll get flamed for this but its just mho

As a mother of at least 2 dyslexic children I wonder why you think that BellaDonna79? To me your post is a sign of bad behaviour/low intelligence/clumsiness etc

Belladonna79

Why do you comment on things that you obviously have no idea of.

How many times do you have to be told that special needs does not equal bad behaviour/low intelligence/clumsiness etc, come on for someone with a such a BIG IQ (or should that be EGO) you should be getting it by now FFS.

My daughter who is 5 has Aspergers, it took months of very crueling assessments to get her a diagnosis.

She is not naugty and she actually has an IQ that puts her in the top 1%.

my dh is aspergers and similarly, has an iq that would put him in the top 1%

i have recently been diagnosed with dyspraxia (more for my own peace of mind than anything else), but that, too has nothing to do with my intelligence, or iq.

One has to jump through a lot of hoops Belladonna before gaining a diagnosis. So sad that people still think like you. I am aware when I tell people that my son has ADHD and dyspraxia that they probably look at me wondering if I am a bad parent. It puts me off telling people unless they are people I trust or if they work with children and will therefore have the beneift of some knowledge and experience in this field. Yet I am so proud of my son. He is not badly behaved nd is higy intelligent although he will probably never excel with conventional qualifications. I often think to myself that parents of special needs children have to put at least twice the amount of effort into their kids and many parents of non special needs children do not recognise this and think the problems of these children have are because the parens do not try hard enough. I have given up worrying what they think. At least I know