Page 9 | WTF has happened to Mumsnet?

Humblebottomous · 2023-10-29T08:45:11+00:00

First we had troll posts, then massive influx of posters from the US (frankly I found it annoying negotiating the different reference points) and now all these ridiculous AI threads which seem to consist of long winded posts about non-problems. I’ve been on and off MN for years but does anyone else feel it really has had it’s day.

ManAboutTown · 30/10/2023 11:05

pikkumyy77 · 30/10/2023 10:51

Is the complaint that “little englanders” is an insult rather than a badge of pride and a quasi political self description no different than Tory or Labour?

Sure, people may associate it with racism, xenophobia, and bigotry but are those things wrong? I understood that they were kind of good—foreigners being rather foreign and their ways, from chocolate to law and culture, being obviously horrid..

It's a term of abuse used by those who see themselves as cosmopolitan for those who like the comfort and security of their own ways. David Goodhart's book The Road to Somewhere addresses this very well

Me I'm in the middle - love foreign countries and seeing different ways of doing things but also appreciate the nice bits of British culture

pikkumyy77 · 30/10/2023 11:14

This is all so sad. The non English people who post here are not taking anything from anyone and are not disparaging or insulting anyone. We are participating. Some of us from inside the UK with lengthy histories—Irish, Welsh, Scots, Pakistani, Indian, Caribbean, or otherwise from the diaspora spawned by Britain’s colonial past. Some of us from outside the UK. How does that infringe or impede the discussion of, variously: motherhood, relationships, gardening, etc…?

mn29 · 30/10/2023 11:21

DeniseSecunda · 30/10/2023 08:09

Americans have kettles, people. Yes, we drink both hot and iced tea, and it's very normal all over the US (I have lived in all areas of the country), but drinking any kind of tea isn't nearly as popular as drinking coffee. No, we don't put cream or milk or whatever into our tea. We definitely don't say "cuppa" or (apparently?) use tea references in relation to time.

We do not use the word "mum." We also don't say "He was sat down" (Why are you using the passive voice instead of the active voice "He was sitting down" or "He sat down"?). We don't say "I have done in the past" (have done WHAT in the past?? Where is the direct object???). We don't say "I went to hers" or the myriad other grammatical mysteries that I find fascinating as hell. (I'm a grammar teacher, having learned American English grammar at high levels by studying Latin, so it DOES actually fascinate me. No shade.)

Non-idiot Americans understand quite well that this is a primarily British-based site (English-based? UK-based?) and that our references regarding politics, laws, culture, etc. have no basis here, which means giving advice based on US experience is ridiculous. (But there are plenty of idiots out there, American and otherwise, so you'll inevitably get clueless fools.) As such, I don't give advice about anything other than relationship stuff, which I gather is quite similar all over the planet.

Americans can ABSOLUTELY be culture-centric. I loathe quite a bit about the American culture (e.g. reality tv, Britney Spears and pop "artists" of that ilk, fast food), so it's disappointing that so much of the world has spent so much money on it that their companies want to keep dishing it out to their citizens, but, hey, it's their money. I think of America as an annoying teenager (given the relative recency of the culture) who thinks the entire world revolves around them and that they know everything. Do with it what you normally do with those kinds of teenagers.

But, yeah, I think you guys might consider replacing "Americans" with "Jews" or "blacks" or "fat people" and see how legit these comments about Americans still are.

Edited

@DeniseSecunda genuinely interested, why do you come on a UK parenting site if you’re not British or living here? I can’t imagine why I would be interested in a similar site based in a different country. Not due to any kind of xenophobia but because the culture and reference points would be irrelevant to me so wouldn’t be applicable or comparable to my own life.

Goldenbear · 30/10/2023 11:24

pikkumyy77 · 30/10/2023 10:51

Is the complaint that “little englanders” is an insult rather than a badge of pride and a quasi political self description no different than Tory or Labour?

Sure, people may associate it with racism, xenophobia, and bigotry but are those things wrong? I understood that they were kind of good—foreigners being rather foreign and their ways, from chocolate to law and culture, being obviously horrid..

The thing is though, used to deride British people that are not particularly keen on life being a homogenised and Americanised experience, it sounds pretty ridiculous. The U.S is hardly some marginalised group that is a victim of anything, it is a powerful country that has exported its culture and identity and expected others to be happy about that. Objections to this and wanting your children to have childhood you did for example are met with accusations of Little Englander!

pikkumyy77 · 30/10/2023 11:49

I don’t see why American mothers posting on a board for mothers homogenizes anything or tells anyone they can’t be nostalgic about their past or want to share family culture with their children. I don’t even really object to the ritual attacks on American chocolate or tea drinking habits. I recognize these for what they are: a shared cultural trope about how incomprehensible and awful Americans are that stems from WWII and that encounter.

Perhaps your quarrel is with the many British mumsnetters from other communities who have lived alongside you but aren’t getting included in that nostalgic imagined past?

I, for one, of course share a love for all things “English” whatever that means: Shakespeare, Kipling, Rosemary Sutcliffe, Archaeology, Bath, Rumer Godden, E. Nesbit, Winnie the Pooh, Paddington (before the movie) tea at Fortnums. Etc… ad nauseum. Of course I have to include Orwell and Hobsbawm too, and Windrush and Grenfell towers along with Cavaliers and Roundheads.

TangerinePlate · 30/10/2023 12:16

Lots of trolls anywhere on the net nowadays. Disinformation war 🤷‍♀️

Bambooshoot · 30/10/2023 12:25

What I’ve noticed it that a lot of posters seem to want to virtue signal about how wonderful they are, compared to the OP (and pretty much everyone else) - berating them for being insensitive and wrong while actually coming across as pretty humourless and mean themselves.

An example today - someone saying their grandchild had been given an awful made up name that no one could say with a straight face - everyone knows some names can be much too try-hard and “yewneeq”, and we all raise our eyebrows, have a giggle and move on, but there were only about four funny posts trying to guess/joke what the terrible name could be, and twenty or thirty saying “oh you’re so ignorant, I can’t believe you would behave that way, no one should ever laugh at a name no matter what it is, I am so much better than you” (basically). Self congratulatory, unconvincing and tedious.

Tinklyheadtilt · 30/10/2023 14:24

Anyone should be welcome to post here. Give your head a wobble OP.

AsWrittenBy · 30/10/2023 14:42

Bambooshoot · 30/10/2023 12:25

What I’ve noticed it that a lot of posters seem to want to virtue signal about how wonderful they are, compared to the OP (and pretty much everyone else) - berating them for being insensitive and wrong while actually coming across as pretty humourless and mean themselves.

An example today - someone saying their grandchild had been given an awful made up name that no one could say with a straight face - everyone knows some names can be much too try-hard and “yewneeq”, and we all raise our eyebrows, have a giggle and move on, but there were only about four funny posts trying to guess/joke what the terrible name could be, and twenty or thirty saying “oh you’re so ignorant, I can’t believe you would behave that way, no one should ever laugh at a name no matter what it is, I am so much better than you” (basically). Self congratulatory, unconvincing and tedious.

but that kind of thread is always going to be a snooze fest of "whats the name" and op wont give the name....

Goldenbear · 30/10/2023 15:06

pikkumyy77 · 30/10/2023 11:49

I don’t see why American mothers posting on a board for mothers homogenizes anything or tells anyone they can’t be nostalgic about their past or want to share family culture with their children. I don’t even really object to the ritual attacks on American chocolate or tea drinking habits. I recognize these for what they are: a shared cultural trope about how incomprehensible and awful Americans are that stems from WWII and that encounter.

Perhaps your quarrel is with the many British mumsnetters from other communities who have lived alongside you but aren’t getting included in that nostalgic imagined past?

I, for one, of course share a love for all things “English” whatever that means: Shakespeare, Kipling, Rosemary Sutcliffe, Archaeology, Bath, Rumer Godden, E. Nesbit, Winnie the Pooh, Paddington (before the movie) tea at Fortnums. Etc… ad nauseum. Of course I have to include Orwell and Hobsbawm too, and Windrush and Grenfell towers along with Cavaliers and Roundheads.

Perhaps you are the one using your imagination there as I am not suggesting that at all as well you know but you're intent on applying your lazy stereotypes. Seemingly, only British if you have a certain list of credentials which seems odd to me as you are British if born in Britain. I grew up in South and West London, hardly nostalgic for some of that believe me, lived in Greenwich in the bit that was not trendy or gentrified. It is not really about bears - either Paddington or Winnie, it is more the rampant consumerism that is a problematic import, knowing the market value of everything but it being disposable within 3 months. The reality TV president, reality TV and it's ugly attributes has seen the demise of the well written drama and the increase and glorification of the worst kind of human traits - cruelty and superficiality for the sake of entertainment.

Again, it is not about the U.S posters but more about not having to prefix everything with, 'I am in Britain' which is a shame as its relatability is what attracted many to begin with. British outlook on politics, social issues is very different to the U.S and much more akin to European politics in that respect so having those reference points is useful. You are not starting from scratch all the time e.g many of us grew up with an understanding of the IRA and the corresponding issues, many in the U.S do not have a clue about it and not do they need to but in that respect there is little commonality in reference points. Leaving the EU again. Most Americans didn't understand the gravity of that for many British people and the economic issues that have followed from that referendum. Even outlook is more religious, more conservative in the US, I mean people aren't allowed to drink until they are 30 or something like that but can own a gun under 21! Even parenting is much more conformist, naughty step, grounding, time out, all concepts British people had never heard of before the 00s so yes that advice is not always going to coming from a place of common ground. For example, many teenagers will drink at 16/17 here and the parents will not go bananas about it.

CasaAmarela · 30/10/2023 15:44

Bambooshoot · 30/10/2023 12:25

What I’ve noticed it that a lot of posters seem to want to virtue signal about how wonderful they are, compared to the OP (and pretty much everyone else) - berating them for being insensitive and wrong while actually coming across as pretty humourless and mean themselves.

An example today - someone saying their grandchild had been given an awful made up name that no one could say with a straight face - everyone knows some names can be much too try-hard and “yewneeq”, and we all raise our eyebrows, have a giggle and move on, but there were only about four funny posts trying to guess/joke what the terrible name could be, and twenty or thirty saying “oh you’re so ignorant, I can’t believe you would behave that way, no one should ever laugh at a name no matter what it is, I am so much better than you” (basically). Self congratulatory, unconvincing and tedious.

Totally agree, the reactions on that thread were utterly ridiculous. Same with the thread about the OP wanting to rehome her dog. Most people I know don't behave this way irl and I doubt these users do either or they would all have LTB'd and be NC with their entire family.

EtiennePalmiere · 30/10/2023 15:55

Goldenbear · 30/10/2023 15:06

Perhaps you are the one using your imagination there as I am not suggesting that at all as well you know but you're intent on applying your lazy stereotypes. Seemingly, only British if you have a certain list of credentials which seems odd to me as you are British if born in Britain. I grew up in South and West London, hardly nostalgic for some of that believe me, lived in Greenwich in the bit that was not trendy or gentrified. It is not really about bears - either Paddington or Winnie, it is more the rampant consumerism that is a problematic import, knowing the market value of everything but it being disposable within 3 months. The reality TV president, reality TV and it's ugly attributes has seen the demise of the well written drama and the increase and glorification of the worst kind of human traits - cruelty and superficiality for the sake of entertainment.

Again, it is not about the U.S posters but more about not having to prefix everything with, 'I am in Britain' which is a shame as its relatability is what attracted many to begin with. British outlook on politics, social issues is very different to the U.S and much more akin to European politics in that respect so having those reference points is useful. You are not starting from scratch all the time e.g many of us grew up with an understanding of the IRA and the corresponding issues, many in the U.S do not have a clue about it and not do they need to but in that respect there is little commonality in reference points. Leaving the EU again. Most Americans didn't understand the gravity of that for many British people and the economic issues that have followed from that referendum. Even outlook is more religious, more conservative in the US, I mean people aren't allowed to drink until they are 30 or something like that but can own a gun under 21! Even parenting is much more conformist, naughty step, grounding, time out, all concepts British people had never heard of before the 00s so yes that advice is not always going to coming from a place of common ground. For example, many teenagers will drink at 16/17 here and the parents will not go bananas about it.

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You certainly know a thing or two about lazy stereotypes.

SunlightOverBamburgh · 30/10/2023 16:07

TooBigForMyBoots · 29/10/2023 10:59

Everyone knows Americans aren't real. They're just a story device, that's why you only see them in films and on TV.

Like Finland and the Finnish then. 😀😁

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/10/2023 17:47

Exactly the same @SunlightOverBamburgh.

Starchipenterprise · 30/10/2023 17:56

I've noticed plenty of incomprehensible thread titles and posts. Not even spell checked or sense checked. Although that's the internet all over these days!

Locutus2000 · 30/10/2023 18:00

This thread took a very xenophobic turn.

Deathwillbebutapause · 30/10/2023 18:09

Yep. After Mumsnet threads started being highlighted on the Daily Mail, we had an influx of these posters.

Their doctors must make a fortune treating their spleens.

Goldenbear · 30/10/2023 18:15

EtiennePalmiere · 30/10/2023 15:55

You certainly know a thing or two about lazy stereotypes.

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Please explain what is stereotyping, did the U.S not elect a president who was in a reality TV programme? Did America event the reality TV concept and export those shows? Are people allowed to buy arms before alcohol? In terms of parental techniques are the naughty corner, time out, Grounding originally American concepts?

In terms of politics and social issues, if you haven't grown up with them, how would you have that average insight.

This is not an issue of stereotypes or right and wrong, it is about difference and the two cultures are different, does that matter, why is it an issue? Lets be happy that we are not all the same.

riversidepub · 30/10/2023 18:35

It has gone downhill. And it's not unusual for old threads with a few pages to be in trending. It doesn't seem like there are many people here anymore.

I disagree on Americans though. They're really polite and almost always mention they're from another culture, so posters know to take that into consideration. Some nationalities (won't name) not only fail to do this but have a habit of making anti-British threads and posts frequently too. I honestly don't get why they're here. Wish we had an ignore button!

Princessandthepea0 · 30/10/2023 18:35

Locutus2000 · 30/10/2023 18:00

This thread took a very xenophobic turn.

It’s allowed now on MN - didn’t you get memo? I reported a poster for out and out xenophobia. Imagine something along the lines of xyz because she’s American. MNHQ let it stand after two complaints with the response “American exceptionalism is a thing.”

I was honestly disgusted - in plain sight. Funnily enough: it was a prolific poster who screams ageism on every thread. Xenophobia is ok though. Who knew.

ManAboutTown · 30/10/2023 18:38

Deathwillbebutapause · 30/10/2023 18:09

Yep. After Mumsnet threads started being highlighted on the Daily Mail, we had an influx of these posters.

Their doctors must make a fortune treating their spleens.

It's an interesting comment this.

I've had a look at a few DM MN articles - it's really lazy journalism designed to fill up their website cheaply.

Maybe it has attracted a few headbangers but the website is very successful and although it takes a centre right position on most political issues the biggest demographic is centre left early middle aged women. Suspect the sidebar of shame has something to do with this plus they are quite avid on gossipy shit involving the Beckhams or Kim Khardashian or Love Island

To be honest I've seen far more derogatory comments about the Tories and Brexit on here than anything else although I don't go looking for threads with a political bent

Goldenbear · 30/10/2023 18:42

Princessandthepea0 · 30/10/2023 18:35

It’s allowed now on MN - didn’t you get memo? I reported a poster for out and out xenophobia. Imagine something along the lines of xyz because she’s American. MNHQ let it stand after two complaints with the response “American exceptionalism is a thing.”

I was honestly disgusted - in plain sight. Funnily enough: it was a prolific poster who screams ageism on every thread. Xenophobia is ok though. Who knew.

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Genuine question - how is it xenophobic to point out that British people have different reference points? Why would you want everyone to be the same, why do we all need to be the same?

Deathwillbebutapause · 30/10/2023 18:44

The Dutch should feel deeply relieved that the US is taking all the heat over "eventing" [sic] reality TV here.

Who cares who the previous American president was? Why should that make us hostile to Americans posting on Mumsnet? The Ukrainians elected a TV comedian, Zelensky. Should we have closed our borders to them on cultural grounds?

willowthecat · 30/10/2023 18:46

ChatGPT generating nonsense questions and 'dilemmas' ?

Princessandthepea0 · 30/10/2023 18:54

Goldenbear · 30/10/2023 18:42

Genuine question - how is it xenophobic to point out that British people have different reference points? Why would you want everyone to be the same, why do we all need to be the same?

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I’m talking about a post which was very out and out xenophobic (not on this thread).