To think student funding is in crisis and yet another area this government just can’t be bothered to fix.

[Fr00tL00ps]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67206767

To get access to full loans your family needs to earn under £25k. In this climate many families above can’t afford to top up and fund now sky high rental fees and utilities as they’re paying for rises in their own. There is now a two tier uni experience with the children of those under £25k and richer families able to top up able to attend uni full time and eat.

Why is it ok for for young people to live in poverty just because they’re students ? Also why is parental income taken into account for an 18 year old at uni living away from home but not for an 18 year old living at home receiving Universal Credit?

I don’t agree with the system at all but it’s done as many students never repay and it’s tax payers money. I think it’s a really bad system, and what is crazy is mum could move a new boyfriend in just before kid goes off to uni, he earns a good salary (say mum only earned 15k) and suddenly he’s responsible for paying for his girlfriends kids education! Meanwhile child’s father would be living nearby, earning 200k a year and is expected to pay zero. It’s a bonkers system is really is. Cost of living crisis, many families are expected to find more and more money.

What’s worse is many parents have no idea student loans are means tested. Otherwise perhaps they’d start a college fund at birth like many in the US do

Students can and should be expected to work too. Even if their course / Uni doesn’t allow it, the holidays are long. My DS worked full time all summer and earned 5k. Not only helpful for the coming year but also got his valuable experience to talk about in job interviews. He doesn’t work term time as he plays sports evenings and weekends hence working full time in summer. He can head back to the same job next summer too

Very very good point about uc. Really they should make that 25 too, seeing as mw is 23 and education is to 25 due to the assumption of parents paying. Def parents income should be taken into account for uc, but are you sure under 25s living at home are allowed to claim? I don't think they should be unless mw and uni is also changed.

Another good point that the parents who need to know the most that they are expected to chip in are the ones who probably charge their kids rent to live at home, and not in a normal saving it all to give back way. They often discourage their kids from uni due to not understanding that many pay back nothing at all or a pittance compared to the loans. Still lots pay it off by 40 so surely enough comes in? You also have people who make a deal, my friend owed about 8k left and settled at 5k so did save interest etc. They were on about 100k at the time.

Whenever student finance is generally mentioned by the government/the press the focus is generally on tuition fees. However for most home students these do not have an impact on their affordability and day to day living costs as these fees are fully covered by the tuition fee loan. What is not fully covered is the maintenance loan (as demonstrated by this article). Even before the recent spike in inflation the loans do not cover all students' costs. There is an inbuilt parental contribution to the system where parents are expected to make up the difference between the full maintenance loan amount and the amount given to their dc, however shockingly this is never advertised or explicitly stated to parents! Martin Lewis has been campaigning about this for a few years now.

https://www.hepi.ac.uk/2023/10/26/student-rents-now-swallow-up-virtually-all-of-the-of-the-average-maintenance-loan-as-market-reaches-crisis-point-in-affordability/

This is the summary of the actual report referenced in the BBC article. Focused on 10 cities (so not everywhere, excludes London, Edinburgh, and Belfast, and also Manchester, Newcastle). So whilst only 10 cities these still ten still accommodate a reasonable number of students.

I've two currently at Uni - not in any of the ten locations covered by this report. Both their rents are way below any of the cities in the report.

due to not understanding that many pay back nothing at all or a pittance compared to the loans

@Boomboom22 although the new Plan 5 loans will change that a fair bit. The IFS estimate the share of graduates fully repaying their loan will increase from 49% for the 2022 university entry cohort to 79% for the 2023 entry cohort.

40 year repayment period and lower salary starting point for repayment.

Yearly Average uk pay 27k average teachers pay 38k. 11k
11k times 35 385k

these figures aren’t set in stone And based on averages
but you have more earning power over your working lifetime with a degree under your belt so for the initial investment of getting a degree over your working lifetime you will get your investment back many times over

But the whole point is many are not going to be able to go to uni or will drop out.

@rwalker try reading the IFS link. Their Key Findings section is succinct and to the point.

What percentage do you think go now, and by how much and from where do you think this fall will be?

Very few degrees are Monday - Friday 9-5, they are often only the equivalent of 2-3 full days a week, in fact, someone I know who did History only had 8 hours of lectures a week. Even with independent study, given the large amount of holiday time also there is plenty of opportunity for part-time jobs! When my DH was at Uni he did an unusual course that was 35 hours a week of in Uni time and he didn't have a lot of spare time in the week but worked all the holidays, it's entirely possible.

Part of the problem we have now is caused by too many people going to Uni, as encouraged by Blair who put targets on it and pushed that more should go and then in 1998 introduced tuition fees

too many people going to Uni

Presumably too many from London and the South East? @Heidi75

What sort of percentage should be going? Should the massive regional disparities continue to be accepted? Have you a list of unis in mind that should be closed; or perhaps re-purposed in educational terms. Courses to be eliminated; those to be reduced; and probably those to be expanded. Medical school places probably an example of the latter.

There are no easy answers but a generic "too many people" statement must have some thoughts underpinning it.

Perhaps some thought should be given to going to a more local university
I get that some students want the full away from home experience but unless you can afford it or you course is very specific then it is not a necessity in most cases.

Also @Zanatdy . When was this your son was working
The reason I ask is, I also worked but this was mid 90s when supermarkets had more staff, retailers were abundant on the high street and pubs weren't closing at the same rate.
It is very hard to get a student job nowadays

Already covered all of this in my original reply on here.

Already covered all of this in my original reply on here

an impressive attempt at deflection @Heidi75 😁Though doomed to fail on a relatively small thread.

Obviously don't respond if you don't wish to; but given your original post contains some very valid points such as how to be paid for; those who really don't benefit from going (70,000 annually based on just future income according to IFS) you are likely to have some valuable thoughts on the nitty-gritty. There may be a range of views, but as the status quo isn't sustainable these sort of questions need to start being addressed - perhaps not all of them, but at least the first two. Whilst I doubt we'd agree on everything there's likely to be some common ground.

Fixed how exactly? Are you proposing we should pay students to go to university? No fees, No living costs? Free accommodation? As that is just not affordable or sustainable. This started with Tony Blair pushing that more people should go to Uni when for many they really don't need to, I know so many people that are doing jobs after degrees they really don't need those degrees for and they could have done without and saved themselves a whole lot of cash. You should really only go to Uni because you have to for your chosen career path or because you have a real passion, and you are bright and self-sufficient enough to cope with the rigors of study, not to fill time as you don't know what else to do or because you feel you have to. If there were fewer people going there would be more money available. I agree that the loan structure is not terribly fair and could be better managed. I would also fully fund any NHS degrees providing the recipients sign up to stay in the NHS for 10 years post-graduation.

1. Presumably too many from London and the South East? not covered
2. What sort of percentage should be going? not covered, beyond the generic "fewer".
3. Should the massive regional disparities continue to be accepted? not covered
4. Have you a list of unis in mind that should be closed; or perhaps re-purposed in educational terms? not covered
5. Courses to be eliminated; those to be reduced; and probably those to be expanded? Medical school places probably an example of the latter. Not covered, but the latter point possibly implied.

You may have time to make long lists I do not - no deflection just no time 😂and certainly not enough time to do justice to what is a very emotive but big subject.

Agree with you here. My half siblings got the full grant as our mum had separated (but not divorced) their dad by then so was classed as a single parent household. Their dad is quite well off though and would send them an allowance every month still.

But not everybody is doing history my dd is doing engineering. Last year it was full time lectures, personal study, exams and assignments right up until the end.

She struggles to get work in the hols as we don’t live in a city and transport is v limited. No way could she afford not staying at home in the hols. None of the jobs she applied for would have tolerated her uni demands during term time and suspect any that would would be massively over subscribed for that reason.

There is very much a pulling up the drawbridge I’m all right Jack, in my day attitude to this which the government plays on. Not everybody lives in the south east with jobs and transport a plenty.

My Husband didn't live in the South East, he lived in a rural setting with limited transport, he just made it work. It's not about pulling up a drawbridge but recognising that you need to do what you need to do and that we cannot expect the government to pay for every aspect of our lives for us.

But they’re loans not handouts and if they get universal credit parental income isn’t taken into account .

But it was ok for the government to pay for the older generations, wasn't it? That's what is meant by pulling up the drawbridge! Today's youngsters don't have the benefits that previous generations enjoyed.

I studied neuroscience at a red brick university in a northern city.
Worked weekends and a few hours in the week around my heavy course load AND still kept a social life.

Managed a 1st class as well. Your daughter isn't an anomaly. She'll either learn to be very broke or she'll learn to manage her time effectively and prioritise. A great skill set for an engineer.

Granted in the holidays I came home to live in London but some people stayed in the uni towns to make money. She's an adult she'll have to figure it out. You coddling her won't change her financial situation nor will your MN thread.

Don't get me wrong it is scary to think you won't be able to support your adult children through uni like you expected to but this is the hand we've been dealt.

Don't disagree the older generations had it better. My children (toddler and newborn) generation will likely have it far worse than this generation.

Very few degrees are Monday - Friday 9-5, they are often only the equivalent of 2-3 full days a week, in fact, someone I know who did History only had 8 hours of lectures a week. Even with independent study, given the large amount of holiday time also there is plenty of opportunity for part-time jobs! When my DH was at Uni he did an unusual course that was 35 hours a week of in Uni time and he didn't have a lot of spare time in the week but worked all the holidays, it's entirely possible.
.

@Heidi75 I had a mix of lectures and labs 9am-5pm Monday -Friday exception being Wednesday which I had lectures 9am-1pm (my uni had no learning Wednesday afternoon as was dedicated sports clubs).

You'll find that STEM subjects regularly have longer days especially compared to the arts (aww well - value for money I guess 🤣)

Anyway I think you tagged me incorrectly because my post is about the fact I had long hours and still funded myself through university so not sure what your point was .