To think student funding is in crisis and yet another area this government just can’t be bothered to fix.

Fr00tL00ps · 2023-10-26T06:01:44+00:00

[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67206767 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67206767]] To get access to full loans your family needs to earn under £25k. In this climate many families above can’t afford to top up and fund now sky high rental fees and utilities as they’re paying for rises in their own. There is now a two tier uni experience with the children of those under £25k and richer families able to top up able to attend uni full time and eat. Why is it ok for for young people to live in poverty just because they’re students ? Also why is parental income taken into account for an 18 year old at uni living away from home but not for an 18 year old living at home receiving Universal Credit?

Mydogisagentleman · 26/10/2023 07:05

YANBU.
Me and DH earn reasonably well on paper but it doesn't translate to our real life finances.
DD gets the minimum and we have to send her money each month.
She works as many hours as she can.
DH on the other hand, has completed 4 degrees and never paid out a penny

Danikm151 · 26/10/2023 07:07

It’s horrendous.
If a family has a household income of £25k and other dependent children at home they’re most likely getting UC as the gov agrees that’s not enough to live on. They’re then expected to help a “adult” at uni.

Almondmum · 26/10/2023 07:12

It's crazy. We don't get everything right in Wales but we do at least have a better handle on student finance.

I wonder if things will change if universities start struggling.to fill places because people stop going?

FloweryName · 26/10/2023 07:15

It’s is fucked up, but if I could afford to subsidise my dc through university without them coming out of uni with a £50k+ debt then I’d take that option in a heartbeat.

The worst thing about student funding at the moment is those poor kids who had to take on thousands of pounds worth of debt to have a shit experience during lockdown. They were charged for accommodation it would have been illegal for them to use at one point and then got no support with the crap online tuition they were given. It’s fucking outrageous and my sympathy lies with those students more than those who will have to work alongside study.

Original poster

Fr00tL00ps · 26/10/2023 07:30

FloweryName

That is an option for only the rich, not something anybody could take in a heartbeat. It’s hard enough for many families above £25k to top up enough to pay rising rent, utilities and food alongside there own rising bills let alone fees on top. So they’re not.

If my 18 year old was at home with everything paid for on Universal Credit our income wouldn’t be taken into account. Why then can she live miles away and be responsible for rent, bills and feeding herself and our income is taken into account and her loans lessened?

OP posts:

SerendipityJane · 26/10/2023 07:47

If the system is keeping the riff raff out, then surely it's working ?

Is one point of view.

May not be popular, but it's what some people really wanted back in the 80s (when I marched against the start of the shift to fees).

Summerbay23 · 26/10/2023 07:49

YANBU the system needs a huge overhaul and the boundaries for being able to receive a higher loan need adjustment.

Original poster

Fr00tL00ps · 26/10/2023 07:54

The mental health impact is really worrying too.

OP posts:

nancy75 · 26/10/2023 08:00

I could understand if this money was given as a grant, but as it’s a loan I don’t get the need for means testing at all

EasternStandard · 26/10/2023 08:01

FloweryName · 26/10/2023 07:15

It’s is fucked up, but if I could afford to subsidise my dc through university without them coming out of uni with a £50k+ debt then I’d take that option in a heartbeat.

The worst thing about student funding at the moment is those poor kids who had to take on thousands of pounds worth of debt to have a shit experience during lockdown. They were charged for accommodation it would have been illegal for them to use at one point and then got no support with the crap online tuition they were given. It’s fucking outrageous and my sympathy lies with those students more than those who will have to work alongside study.

Same here.

Chelsealocke · 26/10/2023 08:07

Absolutely agree. Also absent dads don’t have to pay child maintenance to support the student.

hattie43 · 26/10/2023 08:11

Every area you look at is underfunded. I'm not sure how anyone prioritises which to address first . The country is broke .

TodayInahurry · 26/10/2023 08:13

Better to do a modern apprenticeship and get paid. Too many people go to university and they don’t always get good jobs afterwards

Badbadbunny · 26/10/2023 08:21

FloweryName · 26/10/2023 07:15

It’s is fucked up, but if I could afford to subsidise my dc through university without them coming out of uni with a £50k+ debt then I’d take that option in a heartbeat.

The worst thing about student funding at the moment is those poor kids who had to take on thousands of pounds worth of debt to have a shit experience during lockdown. They were charged for accommodation it would have been illegal for them to use at one point and then got no support with the crap online tuition they were given. It’s fucking outrageous and my sympathy lies with those students more than those who will have to work alongside study.

Fully agree. Unis conned students to sign up for courses and their expensive accommodation promising blended learning when they knew the courses would be fully online for the first year. It was just a money making scam. Lecturers were told to stay away from campus and many of my son's did their lectures from abroad!

peppermintcrisp · 26/10/2023 08:24

Absolutely agree. Also absent dads don’t have to pay child maintenance to support the student.

I think is what needs to change. It goes off the resident parent even if ex DH earns way over the threshold. How is that fair?

Coffeerum · 26/10/2023 08:26

It’s all a shit show really. It wasn’t perfect but student finance was at least a lot better pre coalition.
Loan was linked to family income, which is right to a certain extent, but it wasn’t as dire as it is tight now where still fairly low income families are expected to top up significantly.
Plus back then low income students received grants which was more fair Imo. Now that’s just converted to an extra loan, so some
people paint that as more desirable but really it’s an additional tax for truly low income graduates vs those from more middle class backgrounds.

There’s no irony lost on the fact that all these decision makers received their uni education for free.

Original poster

Fr00tL00ps · 26/10/2023 08:27

Why are any parents involved when they’re not for Universal Credit even if an 18 year old is actually living at home with all their bills paid. It’s ludicrous.

It is clearly not now working in increasingly difficult times. Students are just stuck with poverty. They can’t even apply for Universal Credit.

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TrudyProud · 26/10/2023 08:30

For at least 18 years there has been a two tier system. Many parents (mine included) couldn't afford to subsidise my education nor were they such low earners that the government would. So in 2005 when I started university I took all the loans available to me, worked part time (20hrs a week- weekends and a 4hr midweek shift on Wednesday) in retail whilst doing a FT STEM course at a red brick university (FT or paid internships to support my long term career goals in the summer holidays).
Yes, it was a tad annoying that lots of my friends didn't have to work but working to afford my lifestyle was my normal. Ps I was still as hungover as every other student after many midweek nights out

Fast forward to today- I'm mid 30s, live in a nice London suburb with my husband and (nearly) 2 DDs and am a senior leader (Finance) earning 6-figures. I traveled whilst building my career in my 20s and find managing the stresses of work and family life far easier because I've always had to juggle.

Yes, it will be tough for the kids going to university now but a lot of them already know they aren't getting support. It's more parents who thought they were middle earners who would be able to help that are hurting. Those of us/them who know parents weren't going to be able to help see it as a tax, recognise that you go to uni if you will get a job that will pay for it and if not you don't go.

Luckydip1 · 26/10/2023 08:32

Why has Keith Starmer done a u turn on binning student loans?

Original poster

Fr00tL00ps · 26/10/2023 08:35

TrudyProud
You can’t compare 2005 with now and it’s not the parents hurting it’s the students as parents just can’t pay. How can you keep up with rising mortgages/rent, utilities, food, other children in your own house and fund another with the same issues? You can’t.

Many courses don’t allow work and jobs that work round courses are increasingly hard to find

A 2 tier system with the rich and those from families under £25k able to attend uni full time and eat whilst the massive band in the middle can’t is not a system working.

OP posts:

CanvaQueen · 26/10/2023 08:40

TrudyProud · 26/10/2023 08:30

For at least 18 years there has been a two tier system. Many parents (mine included) couldn't afford to subsidise my education nor were they such low earners that the government would. So in 2005 when I started university I took all the loans available to me, worked part time (20hrs a week- weekends and a 4hr midweek shift on Wednesday) in retail whilst doing a FT STEM course at a red brick university (FT or paid internships to support my long term career goals in the summer holidays).
Yes, it was a tad annoying that lots of my friends didn't have to work but working to afford my lifestyle was my normal. Ps I was still as hungover as every other student after many midweek nights out

Fast forward to today- I'm mid 30s, live in a nice London suburb with my husband and (nearly) 2 DDs and am a senior leader (Finance) earning 6-figures. I traveled whilst building my career in my 20s and find managing the stresses of work and family life far easier because I've always had to juggle.

Yes, it will be tough for the kids going to university now but a lot of them already know they aren't getting support. It's more parents who thought they were middle earners who would be able to help that are hurting. Those of us/them who know parents weren't going to be able to help see it as a tax, recognise that you go to uni if you will get a job that will pay for it and if not you don't go.

Fully agree. I and most of my friends worked as students. I don’t agree with the current fee structure scheme but being broke and having a part time job is absolutely nothing new.

If I were a teenager now I’d go for an apprenticeship scheme; they’re far superior to standard degrees.

CanvaQueen · 26/10/2023 08:41

And yes, sure, it’d be easier if I hadn’t had to work, and maybe my mental health would have been better, but sometimes life is hard and resilience is a learned skill.

towriteyoumustlive · 26/10/2023 08:42

It's always been like this.

I got the minimum loan (1999) and having lived independently and worked for a year before I wouldn't have dreamed of asking my parents for money.

The following year my brother started uni and my loan went up loads!

What on earth has my brother's life plans got to do with me??

In my gap year I earned enough to top up the loan. I then took a job every summer usually working night shift as it paid better.

I lived in very cheap uni accommodation which meant walking much further and lots of us in 1 house.

TrudyProud · 26/10/2023 08:44

Fr00tL00ps · 26/10/2023 08:35

TrudyProud
You can’t compare 2005 with now and it’s not the parents hurting it’s the students as parents just can’t pay. How can you keep up with rising mortgages/rent, utilities, food, other children in your own house and fund another with the same issues? You can’t.

Many courses don’t allow work and jobs that work round courses are increasingly hard to find

A 2 tier system with the rich and those from families under £25k able to attend uni full time and eat whilst the massive band in the middle can’t is not a system working.

All I am saying is there has long been a two tier system. People are only shouting about it now because the so called middle classes are impacted.

I agree 2023 and 2005 aren't the same but for struggling families they might as well have been.

Jewel1968 · 26/10/2023 08:46

My DS lived at home and went to university. At the time I was worried and people were saying - he needs to move out to grow up etc... I did a little research at the time and in mainland Europe it's quite common to live at home and go to a local university. Obviously not everyone lives close to a university so not an option for everyone.

Next DD has gone away for uni. They have secured a job but it's taking ages for it to start. They are lucky in that their accommodation is relatively cheap. I hadn't realised that some universities have higher costed student accommodation. They are also not really big on socialising so they live cheaply.

I agree though if a country is to benefit from greater number of kids getting degrees they should make the loan system better. I also think the pressure to leave home needs to be looked at. Why not live at home and study as long as it's not stifling. But that is the choice of the student.