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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think I've been given a verbal warning or even shown the door?

275 replies

chatenoire · 26/10/2023 06:36

Hey ladies!

I've told you about this saga before, but I feel like if I read between the lines, I was either given a first verbal warning or kindly shown the door.

My boss told me that she's noticed a complete decline in my performance in the past two months. I however know that yes maybe in August? I noticed things were starting to go south, but looking at emails/calendars it was early September.

Anywho, it was multifactorial but overall my manager gave me a few options:

*That she'll support me to move to another company in case I'm unhappy (I assured her I'm not, but she mentioned it twice).

*That I can move to a different team (she told me to tell her by next week as she'll meet that manager)

*Work on my current role.

She however did ask (twice) to at least do my basic job correctly (help her to help me).

I do feel a bit stuck, but I think it's because they started pointing things at me and not necessarily because I was terrible to begin with. I also think that because my core workload is low, my output is also low, so it's easier to see mistakes.

OP posts:
chatenoire · 31/10/2023 14:13

spitefulandbadgrammar · 31/10/2023 12:07

Oh my god, just get on with your work!

What makes you think I'm not??

OP posts:
Neriah · 31/10/2023 16:57

chatenoire · 31/10/2023 14:13

What makes you think I'm not??

Because you spend a lot of time posting during working hours?

Scirocco · 31/10/2023 18:29

chatenoire · 30/10/2023 21:46

PLOT TWIST not that it changes much BUT... While running some reports that my boss doesn't have access to, I found that my colleague actually isn't as busy (she's just as busy as me) but inflates her calendar with "phantom" events.

We also ended up churning the same amount of documents (that actually got signed) and I produced twice as much as her in actual monetary terms and within my main role.

How do you have access to reports with this information but your manager doesn't?

chatenoire · 01/11/2023 07:43

Scirocco · 31/10/2023 18:29

How do you have access to reports with this information but your manager doesn't?

My manager has never really been bothered about those reports, and when she realised I had access (I asked for it and IT gave it to me) she just asks me to run them on an ad hoc basis.

I know one in particular she has no access to.

BTW the person who says I don't get on with my work... We have 11 hour windows to work in. You can take it or leave, but I need it as I depend on certain things from my colleagues who are based in different time zones.

OP posts:
MuckyPlucky · 01/11/2023 22:38

Your role seems to rely on “churning documents” to be signed. Yet you get paid way over the odds for admin / clerical.
You work hours to suit, have plenty of time to post on MN all day, seem remarkably blasé in your approach to keeping your job, have minimal respect for authority or doing the right thing, your manager was going to bring all this up “over a beer or a smoke”….

I’ve no idea where to even start. I’m out.

chatenoire · 04/11/2023 10:39

I thought I'd give an update. So I had another scheduled 1:1 with my boss, but in the end I mostly helped her write a report for our CEO. Everything else was left to "maybe one day" and ran out of time. Not even one bit about changing roles or teams. So I think as long as I keep my quality up, it's BAU.

OP posts:
Paininthederriere · 05/11/2023 05:21

OP you come across as though you feel you are superior to some of your colleagues & manager in certain abilities/areas.
I wonder if you are better suited to more intellectual abilities than admin ones?
The idea of having a "side gig" in different departments sounds like you would be much happier in those areas than the one you're currently in. Why not apply for roles elsewhere in these areas?

chatenoire · 05/11/2023 09:47

Paininthederriere · 05/11/2023 05:21

OP you come across as though you feel you are superior to some of your colleagues & manager in certain abilities/areas.
I wonder if you are better suited to more intellectual abilities than admin ones?
The idea of having a "side gig" in different departments sounds like you would be much happier in those areas than the one you're currently in. Why not apply for roles elsewhere in these areas?

Because my manager didn't let me (as on working more officially with other teams), and I mean aren't we all stronger in certain areas than others? I know what my strengths and weaknesses are. My manager once said "I can get 20 others that will be like your colleague, but you, there's only one you".

OP posts:
PattyDukeAstin · 05/11/2023 10:06

'Hey Ladies' - is never a convincing start to a thread.

LIZS · 05/11/2023 11:19

My manager once said "I can get 20 others that will be like your colleague, but you, there's only one you". Could be read several ways, and most not positively.

chatenoire · 05/11/2023 13:14

LIZS · 05/11/2023 11:19

My manager once said "I can get 20 others that will be like your colleague, but you, there's only one you". Could be read several ways, and most not positively.

Oh no it was said in a nice way, my very good friend (who's also a colleague) was there when she said it. She meant it as a very nice compliment.

OP posts:
Paininthederriere · 05/11/2023 19:47

chatenoire · 05/11/2023 09:47

Because my manager didn't let me (as on working more officially with other teams), and I mean aren't we all stronger in certain areas than others? I know what my strengths and weaknesses are. My manager once said "I can get 20 others that will be like your colleague, but you, there's only one you".

No OP I meant elsewhere altogether - out of this company & in a different role utilising different skills.

If you know what your strengths & weaknesses are why remain in a role that it’s becoming apparent (either to yourself and/or others) that you’re not excelling in?

When you talk about your achievements in your side gig you sound much more proud of these & your ability to carry them out.

It sounds as though you’ve been allowed to try to be utilised by the other departments but as there is no budget for anything with them are going to be stuck doing a job it’s clear you don’t really enjoy or are especially good at.

I know it may be hard to accept, when you feel so clearly capable of better (?) things, but this role does not sound right for you.

You are very defensive about the feedback you’ve been given about your errors & performance. Which is never a nice process for anyone but is a necessity if you are to thrive in the workplace.

But instead of allowing yourself to be in the wrong about certain mistakes & areas you need to improve in, you’re trying to dispute & find fault with the process itself, and demonstrate that it’s their fault for not managing you correctly in the first place.

It really doesn’t wash to say “well you were happy with this standard of work before so why is it a problem now?” If that standard contained errors & was below what is acceptable.

Your arguing over the semantics of what “acceptable” means & whether or not anyone had ever pointed this out to you, is not helping your case.

Yes you need to know if you are being officially managed out, but there are some universally acknowledged general standards of performance, like basic grammar, spelling etc that are assumed & do not need to be literally “spelled out” especially in roles like yours, that go without saying.

Has anyone ever specified that you should be using English language in your documents? Otherwise does that mean it would be ok to use French? Or Portuguese or Latin?!

If you’d been writing your documents in French, but work for an English speaking company, with English speaking clients, would it be ok to continue using French & to argue that as nobody had told you this was incorrect to continue doing it anyway?
I’m afraid your argument is farcical OP.

It sounds as though you think these errors are not particularly bad & keep trying to apportion the blame for them elsewhere.

Surely you appreciate how the professionalism of the company is reflected in any of its correspondence?

Do you lack a basic appreciation of how important your admin role is? Are your feelings towards it being a lesser role than the side gig you so much prefer, feeding into your ability to carry it out properly?

I would not want to work with a colleague who does not have an interest in attention to detail if that was central to the role they were employed in. If they repeatedly waxed lyrical about higher pursuits elsewhere in the company, but were not delivering the basics in their given role, I don’t think I would be particularly impressed by them.

Your perceived abilities in a completely different area than the one you’re employed in & your attempts to turn their accurate feedback of you into grounds for an employment dispute is not helping your case OP.

Neither is trying to appear cleverer than or above the system & your seniors.

I doubt you will be able to accept any of this feedback but it would be wise & ultimately beneficial for your career in general if you could.

Learn from it & move on.

Good luck.

chatenoire · 05/11/2023 20:07

Paininthederriere · 05/11/2023 19:47

No OP I meant elsewhere altogether - out of this company & in a different role utilising different skills.

If you know what your strengths & weaknesses are why remain in a role that it’s becoming apparent (either to yourself and/or others) that you’re not excelling in?

When you talk about your achievements in your side gig you sound much more proud of these & your ability to carry them out.

It sounds as though you’ve been allowed to try to be utilised by the other departments but as there is no budget for anything with them are going to be stuck doing a job it’s clear you don’t really enjoy or are especially good at.

I know it may be hard to accept, when you feel so clearly capable of better (?) things, but this role does not sound right for you.

You are very defensive about the feedback you’ve been given about your errors & performance. Which is never a nice process for anyone but is a necessity if you are to thrive in the workplace.

But instead of allowing yourself to be in the wrong about certain mistakes & areas you need to improve in, you’re trying to dispute & find fault with the process itself, and demonstrate that it’s their fault for not managing you correctly in the first place.

It really doesn’t wash to say “well you were happy with this standard of work before so why is it a problem now?” If that standard contained errors & was below what is acceptable.

Your arguing over the semantics of what “acceptable” means & whether or not anyone had ever pointed this out to you, is not helping your case.

Yes you need to know if you are being officially managed out, but there are some universally acknowledged general standards of performance, like basic grammar, spelling etc that are assumed & do not need to be literally “spelled out” especially in roles like yours, that go without saying.

Has anyone ever specified that you should be using English language in your documents? Otherwise does that mean it would be ok to use French? Or Portuguese or Latin?!

If you’d been writing your documents in French, but work for an English speaking company, with English speaking clients, would it be ok to continue using French & to argue that as nobody had told you this was incorrect to continue doing it anyway?
I’m afraid your argument is farcical OP.

It sounds as though you think these errors are not particularly bad & keep trying to apportion the blame for them elsewhere.

Surely you appreciate how the professionalism of the company is reflected in any of its correspondence?

Do you lack a basic appreciation of how important your admin role is? Are your feelings towards it being a lesser role than the side gig you so much prefer, feeding into your ability to carry it out properly?

I would not want to work with a colleague who does not have an interest in attention to detail if that was central to the role they were employed in. If they repeatedly waxed lyrical about higher pursuits elsewhere in the company, but were not delivering the basics in their given role, I don’t think I would be particularly impressed by them.

Your perceived abilities in a completely different area than the one you’re employed in & your attempts to turn their accurate feedback of you into grounds for an employment dispute is not helping your case OP.

Neither is trying to appear cleverer than or above the system & your seniors.

I doubt you will be able to accept any of this feedback but it would be wise & ultimately beneficial for your career in general if you could.

Learn from it & move on.

Good luck.

I've actually never disputed how wrong they are (or not). I've asked for feedback to other colleagues and asked where else can they see me flourish. Their answer was that as much as they understand some bits definitely don't fit my skillset, overall they think our department is where I most belong.

My manager has seemed to brush it off again, but has welcomed some of my suggestions that can not only help me, but help the wider org. It wasn't a false alarm per se, but most certainly a wake up call. Now can I see me doing this forever? Not really. Can I see me doing something similar, yes 100%. However due my own personal circumstances it has to be fully remote, so until I find this dream job (or whatever fully fulfills me) I have to fight to keep my job (as in improving) for my family's sake.

OP posts:
AlohaRose · 06/11/2023 11:14

OP, last week you were supposed to be going back to your manager to confirm what you wished to do in terms of staying in your current role Vs moving to a new team. What has happened to that conversation?

chatenoire · 06/11/2023 15:00

AlohaRose · 06/11/2023 11:14

OP, last week you were supposed to be going back to your manager to confirm what you wished to do in terms of staying in your current role Vs moving to a new team. What has happened to that conversation?

She didn't have time the time during our call and didn't address it. When I tried to approach the subject she just said "when the time comes".

OP posts:
LimePi · 08/11/2023 12:25

What does “when the time comes” mean ? Have you asked her?

they might be working in the background to put you on a PIP and the time will come when they have all their ducks in a row. I would be very interested in understanding what exactly your manager meant in case it’s actually not favourable to you

you seem strangely unconcerned

Scirocco · 08/11/2023 12:39

"When the time comes" could mean several things, some of which might not be good. It might be worth finding out exactly what is happening and getting your own ducks in a row.

Lndnmummy · 08/11/2023 12:48

Sounds like they are working on a PIP

chatenoire · 08/11/2023 14:39

LimePi · 08/11/2023 12:25

What does “when the time comes” mean ? Have you asked her?

they might be working in the background to put you on a PIP and the time will come when they have all their ducks in a row. I would be very interested in understanding what exactly your manager meant in case it’s actually not favourable to you

you seem strangely unconcerned

She meant budget to have more people within the team, so I could be more customer centric. Instead of being stretched out between accounts and not giving each account the time I think they deserve.

OP posts:
chatenoire · 08/11/2023 14:40

Oh and BTW, she said yeah don't worry about what we talked about last week, it was just a concern, but you're back on track.

OP posts:
friendlycat · 08/11/2023 19:29

chatenoire · 08/11/2023 14:40

Oh and BTW, she said yeah don't worry about what we talked about last week, it was just a concern, but you're back on track.

It's utterly extraordinary that your Manager gave you these options below

my manager gave me a few options:

That she'll support me to move to another company in case I'm unhappy (I assured her I'm not, but she mentioned it twice).*

That I can move to a different team (she told me to tell her by next week as she'll meet that manager)*

Work on my current role.*

She however did ask (twice) to at least do my basic job correctly (help her to help me).

And now everything is all fine and dandy. Real life normally doesn't work like this.

chatenoire · 08/11/2023 22:24

friendlycat · 08/11/2023 19:29

It's utterly extraordinary that your Manager gave you these options below

my manager gave me a few options:

That she'll support me to move to another company in case I'm unhappy (I assured her I'm not, but she mentioned it twice).*

That I can move to a different team (she told me to tell her by next week as she'll meet that manager)*

Work on my current role.*

She however did ask (twice) to at least do my basic job correctly (help her to help me).

And now everything is all fine and dandy. Real life normally doesn't work like this.

What can I say? I mean she also sent me one email once (which made it sound like it was a big deal) and when I asked to get a clarification I was told someone was having a bad day and it was not a reflection on myself.

OP posts:
friendlycat · 08/11/2023 22:48

All I can say is this turnaround is somewhat at odds with the title of your post and some of your comments of what has been happening for you at work recently.

Do you genuinely think everything has miraculously changed all of a sudden?

chatenoire · 09/11/2023 06:15

friendlycat · 08/11/2023 22:48

All I can say is this turnaround is somewhat at odds with the title of your post and some of your comments of what has been happening for you at work recently.

Do you genuinely think everything has miraculously changed all of a sudden?

I think there's a possibility that she saw that her approach instead of being "empowering" was sort of the opposite.

Part of what put me on edge was a similar tactic applied to my colleague and I.

Over the last week a few things happened:
*It turned out our core workload and output was the same (so I actually did more than I thought, and in perspective I assume that in proportion my mistakes weren't as high).
*It also turned out that I did deliver successfully what I was supposed to do with our biggest account atm
*The reports also showed that I was working around 75% more (in terms of workload) than my colleague, and afterall I was doing what the business wanted me to do (so it's not like I went rogue) - those hours don't take into account all the time it took me to upskill in what I call my "side gig", but again I got my "side gig" as a management decision not just because I did it on my own.
*She also realised the global standard was even below my worst examples, and she said that and told me she appreciated me for being better.
*My manager's life just turned upside down, so there's an element that she was being extra harsh because she was having a rough patch herself

Now do I think it's all well and dandy? Not 100% but at least I'm sure I'm out of the danger zone, and as long as I'm diligent and do what I'm told, that should buy me some time until I figure out what I want to do with my life.

OP posts:
Lndnmummy · 10/11/2023 18:54

Right. Just keep your head down and focus on your deliverables.

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