To ask DD(11) to have THE talk with DS(13)?

[DeceitfulMummy]

DD (11) has been suspicious of Father Christmas for a couple of years now. We are now not sure about DS(13) who has ASD. He certainly seems to believe in the tooth fairy based on yesterday morning when he concluded she couldn't get through because of the bad weather. We thought he'd figured it out, so this upset took us rather by surprise.

DC are not in a UK school (so there has been no Santa gossip at primary) and DS started secondary this year. WIBTotallyU to confirm DD's suspicions and ask her to say something to DS before he starts mentioning it at school?

You're the parent, you ought to explain to him that it's make believe.

Everyone on these threads always acts as though how THEY dealt with it is the best way. Their child was devastated so expect the same. You should never lie to autistic children so the OP has ruined their child's life. Their child figured it out by 5 so no way any other child believes at 11.
The fact is all children and people are different. You have no way of knowing how a child will react to any situation regardless of ASD or not.
To add my experience, I'm autistic. I believed in santa. I loved believing in santa. I have amazing memories of Christmas. I don't remember being told he wasnt real. My mum seemed to think I just figured it out myself at some point and it was never really discussed. I still used to talk about what I wanted from "santa" when I was in my 30 to her.

And I have a friend who's son is autistic. He found it hard to believe that santa wasn't real for quite a while because he couldn't understand why he was told he was to start with. But once he got to grips with it he found it hilarious that his mum used to hide presents and sneak about in the middle of the night. He's 17 now and also not traumatised in the slightest. In fact he now helps to "be santa" for other family members.

This is why I'm very glad that my parents didn't lie to me that Father Christmas existed from day one. I'm autistic, diagnosed in my forties, and having my parents lie to me and then later tell me they'd lied would have been devastating.

I struggle to comprehend why anyone would knowingly lie to a child (not the same as simplifying an explanation or omitting age-inappropriate material) at any stage in that child's life, whether that child is neurotypical or not. I don't understand at all why we have an entire culture doing this.

I do, however, sympathise with you OP. You live in a culture encouraging you to take your children to visit Santa in a grotto, put a fake key ornament in the garden because you have no chimney, and otherwise participate in the lie. It's a form of coercion. My parents were challenged by others for their refusal to submit.

How you come back from this: I think you need to preface by explaining that it's deemed normal to lie to very small children about some things and then tell them the truth when they are older. DS will want to know why there's Santa grottos etc and you can explain that it's part of the lying to very small children. Expect your son to ask what else you've lied about and answer in full (tooth fairy, ghosts, Krampus, Old Father Time, spirit of the harvest in the corn dolly); the origin of the lie (St Nicholas); and why the lie exists (to disguise from children the source of presents and promote good behaviour, to alleviate fear of tooth loss by linking it to a reward, etc).

This is also a worthy approach to try.

I was talking to parents in general than you in particular.

Children without autism can also get very upset to find out they have been lied to.

I just don't agree in lying to children, especially long term lies like this. There is not really anything gained by it but some children can find it generally distressing to find out they have been lied to by people they trusted for their entire lives.

I’m sure he already knows really (mine had twigged by the time they were around 6 so we never had “the talk”). Just tell the truth but continue with stockings for longer anyway if you think the DC would miss them.

@NalafromtheLionKing we kind of assumed he did but... At Easter DD thanked their GP's, DS didn't. And he's actually very "correct" on thanking people for doing things or giving gifts. And then there was the upset about the tooth fairy forgetting two nights in a row not managing to make it through the storm <-- his reasoning. So we're not sure he knows at all.

I was thinking that too!

This is the cutest!

I wouldn’t want to spoil it for them. If they still believe let them!

How on earth have they managed to get to that age and still belive in Santa / Fairies. I know you said they aren't in UK school but seriously have you been keeping them in the basement.

100% tell the kid asap. It's not going to end well if they find out at school, they'll get laughed at.
Try explaining that father Christmas embodies the spirit of Christmas but isn't an actual person. Continue your Christmas traditions regardless.

I still do stockings from santa even for my elderly father if he's visiting.

Mine are 11&14. We’ve never had the talk. No idea what they actually think as it’s never been openly discussed. But every year they ask to leave all the relevant bits out for Santa and rudolf, follow the Santa app on the telly t track where he’s been etc.

I don’t recall having the conversation with my parents as a child either and as a young adult returning from uni my stocking was still sneaked into my bedroom whilst I was asleep. My sister and I did talk about it with each other and would try and hunt out the presents.

My eldest is also autistic but attends mainstream and certainly hasn’t come home saying she’s been bullied about her Christmas beliefs. She also attends church weekly and none of her friends do. But she doesn’t seem to get picked on for her beliefs and quirks. She would tell me too as I get a minute by minute account of her day at school where she even tells me the mischief or trouble some friends have been in.

We never had the talk with my son with ASD. Like you say, you don't start your parenting journey with a baby/toddler knowing that autism is going to be a big factor when choosing how to celebrate Christmas. We have an age gap too with younger kids, so we couldn't trust that he wouldn't just blurt it out and tell them when they were too young to hear it.
We took the route of neither confirming nor denying. So when he started high school, we told him that not everyone believes, but some kids still do. But most in high school won't, so not to talk about Father Christmas in school or say that you believe. When he asked me out right if FC is real, I just raised my eyebrow and asked him "What do you think?" And I told him it's fun to believe so it's up to him. And that he shouldn't ask the tough questions in front of the younger ones because it's nice to believe in magic when you're little. Honestly, it worked out really well for us. I think having a big talk and 'revealing the lie' would have been too much for him. So he felt like he worked it out himself, but he still plays along with it, because it is fun.

Wait, Santa's not real? 😱

That poor girl. What an awful thing to do to your daughter. You've failed to help your son build up to the understanding that santa is a fairy story by an appropriate age and have now put him at risk of bullying. You've concluded that the way to rectify that is explaining it to him bluntly, but know he's likely to be upset and react badly to such a thing. So you've decided to sidestep your responsibility as a parent and the consequences of your mistakes and offload the problem onto your 11 year old child.

Bluntly, stop putting YOUR parent responsibility on a 11 year old child.

Of course he can, he uses Santa magic.

With my son, when he had suspicions I told him that in fact his suspicions were correct and now that he had “cracked the code” he gets to become Santa for his little sister. I explained this means we can choose her Santa presents together and he can stay up later than her to eat the mince pie etc that’s left out (he still gets a stocking and Santa presents to keep the secret consistent) and he loved this idea. We sold it to him like a promotion for a big brother.

I don’t know if this makes sense? But I had seen the idea online and thought it was cute. If they had no younger siblings I’d explain the truth and say but if you still enjoy the magic we can carry on the Santa routine

Yep. I’m with you. I remember being 18 and at home for Christmas and my mum was sat yawning and I said mum, just go to bed it’s fine and she was like no I can’t. And I was like, mum I know it’s you who does the presents. Put them out and go to bed. And she wouldn’t 😂 she made me go to bed first.
my son found out while at his dads aged 10 that it was his dad, and he was very upset. The next year he said to me, maybe I can just ignore that I know and still play along. I said of course you can, that’s what all grown ups do. Because it’s fun ☺️

This is the way it went with Son (also autistic). He was the world's greatest sceptic and around age three he figured it out (I think seeing "Santa" driving a bus was the first shadow of doubt!) However, he didn't mind. We had never really pushed Santa as a big thing (we also thought he might not love the idea of a strange man in the house at night) but people will say to your toddler "Are you excited for Santa coming?" so you don't really get total control over it.

Luckily he was just about old enough to take in that other kids at nursery might still believe and that he mustn't spoil it for anyone. (He hates to be told the end of stories so he could understand this.) For the next couple of years we had a heavy nudge-and-wink act from him and I think he rather enjoyed being in on it. (This isn't pushing this as the best way. We had no real plan and just responded to him.)

He's not nearly so accommodating about his sister's belief in unicorns. I'm not sure it's genuine - she has a big imagination and would LIKE there to be unicorns - but he finds it tiresome and in the face of opposition she has dug in. It's been an education in how not to change someone's mind...

AdalineStephen · Yesterday 21:25
**
Wait, Santa's not real? 😱

Well he still comes to us, Adaline. I’m 60 next year. Interesting, he seems to be gaining weight at the same rate as my husband. My husband wouldn’t know, says he’s never seen him, always seems to be somewhere else when he comes….😁

(No idea where that big gap came from)

There is a lovely mini essay about getting your kids to become a Santa when they are too old to believe anymore.

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/parenting/a41821/how-to-tell-kids-about-santa/

Basically, have the chat with them that Father Christmas isn't a literal person, but an idea and that after a certain age, we have to become Father Christmas and help deliver Christmas to people. Get them to choose some toys for the local hospital/shelter/shoebox charity or a friend or neighbour and never reveal who it is from. Being Santa = giving without taking the credit or having any expectation of reciprocity.

I will tell you what I told my ASD son as he started questioning it last year at age 10 in front of my 6 year old

I took him to his bedroom and asked him if he wanted to ask me a question about Santa

when he asked if Santa is real I said 'yes he was a real person. Santa himself was a real man who lived many many years ago. He was a kind man who made toys for the local children in his village and left them as a suprise on their doorsteps on what was then the winter solstice which later became known as christmas day. When he died the parents of those children decided to carry it on but brought the toys inside and placed them under a tree. Those children grew up and carried on the tradition with their children and that act of kindness spread around the entire world. So while Santa isn't a fat man in a suit going around the world on flying reindeer the idea of santa and giving to others with no expectation of thanks in return is very much real. Nanny and Grandad were Santa to me, Dad and I are santa to you and one day you will be Santa to your own children. Now that you know the truth you get to help us be Santa for your brother and you are keeping the magic alive for children younger than you'

He was then put on elf duty which suited me fine as I hate the little blighter.