Why are cats allowed to be a pain in the arse??

[sofaprincess]

We recently moved into a new house and we have a dog. She is quite a large dog and I have spent a huge amount of time training her and trying to ensure she is well behaved out of the house and friendly or indifferent (depending on the situation) with other people and dogs. I am always conscious that people might not like dogs and we steer clear of people in the street and always clear up her mess. She loves spending time in the garden and that is supposed to be her safe space.

My issue is this - my husband is picking cat poo up regularly from our front garden and has identified the culprit, but really what can we do (rhetorical)? But worse than that, a different cat likes to come and sunbathe in my garden (on the shed roof or other high up places) which causes my dog to bark continuously until I go out and lure her back inside. I’m starting to feel a bit fed up with nuisance cats - we should be able to enjoy our outside space without dealing with bloody cat issues……right?

YANBU - cats are are pain in the arse and they should be regulated in the same way as dogs are (ie owners need to ensure they have them under control)

YABU - cats will be cats and they should be allowed to free roam and sunbathe/shit where they like

What dogs do or don't do is completely irrelevant when it comes to talking about cats.

My point being that I don't think their behaviour needs the kind of limitations that dogs behaviour does.

I have to disagree. If you have a pet, it should be on your property or under your control at all times. By definition, a roaming cat is not under control.

Ok, must be the owners that are stupid then!

I have to disagree. If you have a pet, it should be on your property or under your control at all times. By definition, a roaming cat is not under control.

Fair enough! It doesn't bother me personally.

Cats are protected by law and have a legal right to roam.

I think people fundamentally misunderstand how cats work.

My neighbours have recently got two new cats and one of them is pooing in our garden, which is super-annoying. But it's not my neighbour's fault, it's really the fault of the breeder who allowed the kittens to be taken away from their mum too soon before she'd taught them not to poo on a patio, but rather under a bush and cover it up!

Cats are not like dogs, and the point does need to be made. Recently there was a to-do on my local Facebook page because people were saying that other people were feeding their cats. Well cats are not possessions. They have human slaves, and to a large extent choose those humans themselves. In this particular case the cat's "owner" had a small daughter which I suspect was the reason the cat was staying away.

The point is - cats are their own "people". Unless you have a house cat you can't control them like other pets. I don't think having pets is fair in any event, but having a house cat is really unfair.

If you don't like poo in your garden, have a go at the breeders.

I don’t have statistics, only anecdotal evidence, but my experience with rescues in the US is that the adoption contract includes requirements to keep the cat indoors, to never declaw, and to contact the rescue first if you are considering rehoming for any reason. Cats are also never transferred to owners without being sterilized first. It’s an entirely different model of cat stewardship.

Sounds a great idea

Maybe it would bother you if other people's cats entered your property and caused damage, though, which is what many people do experience as a result of cats being allowed out to roam.

I've had cats come into my home and try and fight my resident cats. One ended up with an abscess and needed vet treatment.
I've also had a stray cat enter our home (before we even had cats) and spray - it stunk to high heaven and took weeks to get out.
I know of cats who have got onto people's property and been ripped apart by resident dogs.

Not to mention all the cats who are hit by cars or left for dead at the side of the road because they've darted out into traffic.

The point is - cats are their own "people". Unless you have a house cat you can't control them like other pets. I don't think having pets is fair in any event, but having a house cat is really unfair.

Nobody's talking about having to have house cats. They're talking about owners having to keep cats on their own property - that could mean keeping them indoors but it could also mean installing a catio or cat-proofing your garden to keep your animals contained.

You can control your cat, it's just people can't be arsed to provide them with the entertainment and stimulation they need indoors/in the garden and let them out to become other people's problem instead.

What’s interesting is you and others saying this. I’m not going to get a catio or put my cat on a leash but I am going to look into cat proofing my garden. Does anyone know how this works in practice though? If a cat is used to being in an un cat proofed garden does it mind not being able to get out or does it get used to it?

Some visual reasons to catproof your garden

@GonnaGetGoingReturns I have an older cat who went out a few times before I got my garden cat proofed, she doesn't seem to mind that it's catproofed since she got used to it, it would depend how far your cat is used to wandering/how big your garden is I would think. My other cats have known the catproofing their whole life and don't care at all, but they're ragdolls and not very interested in anything other than snoozing anyway

Obviously I can't speak for all cats, but one of mine roamed in his previous home. We took him in when he was nearly three (and no longer a cute kitten) and he's lived happily in a cat-proofed home and garden ever since. He'll be nine in April.

We also have two younger cats who have never roamed and who live in the same set-up with no issues. It means I know where they are and that they're safe.

The only way of keeping a cat on your property is to not let it out. Otherwise they will roam, unless you put on a wall that's very very high.
Also, I never said anything about declawing in relation to the UK. There's no "gotcha" when it comes to declawing in the US - this is something that comes up many times on cat forums and you have people defending this practice on barricades.
Btw, microchipping and neutering hasn't stopped cats roaming yet, so why are you using it as an argument?
I live in Norway and most of the cats are outside, with free access to their home. They are free to roam and nobody is clutching their pearl necklace when they see a cat out on the street or in their garden, so you may exclude Norway from the list of your "many countries". Ireland too.

The only way of keeping a cat on your property is to not let it out. Otherwise they will roam, unless you put on a wall that's very very high.

Incorrect. You can use a catio, you can cat-proof your garden, you can use a harness and lead.

Btw, microchipping and neutering hasn't stopped cats roaming yet, so why are you using it as an argument?

I'm not using it as an argument for anything, I'm just saying that in other countries, neutering and micro-chipping are some of the restrictions placed on cats on top of not being allowed out to roam.

I live in Norway and most of the cats are outside, with free access to their home. They are free to roam and nobody is clutching their pearl necklace when they see a cat out on the street or in their garden, so you may exclude Norway from the list of your "many countries". Ireland too.

Good for you. I don't "clutch my pearl necklace" either but I still would rather see cats safely contained at home, rather than let out to take their chances with foxes, feral cats and cars.

Why would you use a chemical that attracts cats (bleach) and gets them into a high state of arousal, to include everything up to and including spraying, around your front door?

And if you smell of bleach when you go into work, that makes it likely you will encounter cats that want to use you as a chew toy as a direct result of the effects of chlorine bleach.

It's like hating wasps but covering your doorstep, front door and your hands with a coating of fermenting plum juice and complaining that the wasps are interested and quite aggressive.

The only way of keeping a cat on your property is to not let it out. Otherwise they will roam, unless you put on a wall that's very very high.

Incorrect. You can use a catio, you can cat-proof your garden, you can use a harness and lead.
A catio is keeping the cat inside, it can't move around freely.
Cat-proof your garden - I've seen cats managing to squeeze through improbable openings and jump pretty impressive heights. Unless you cover everything around with a tall wall of concrete, it's almost impossible to cat-proof an open area.
A harness: yes, we tried that. My tom threw himself under my cat and I had to drag him out like a stiff corpse. He refused to move and played dead weight. He was like a feline Gandhi, managing to bring passive resistance to yet another level.

A catio is keeping the cat inside, it can't move around freely.

Hmm, depends on the catio. Some are tiny, some are absolutely massive and bigger than a garden.

Cat-proof your garden - I've seen cats managing to squeeze through improbable openings and jump pretty impressive heights. Unless you cover everything around with a tall wall of concrete, it's almost impossible to cat-proof an open area.

That's not how you cat-proof a garden. You can get fencing that turns inwards at the top so the cat can't escape (like they use for zoo enclosures).

A harness: yes, we tried that. My tom threw himself under my cat and I had to drag him out like a stiff corpse. He refused to move and played dead weight. He was like a feline Gandhi, managing to bring passive resistance to yet another level.

Yep, harnesses aren't for every cat - I'll be the first to admit that. But they are an option and very popular with many people who can't let their cats out to roam for various reasons.

@NeverDropYourMooncup The idea behind using bleach to clean up piss is to clean up piss properly, when you clean cat piss up with bleach you're not thinking of what the cat might like/be attracted to ffs. Will remember to add "don't use bleach unless you want even more harassment from cats" on the list next to "don't let your children play in the uncatproofed garden because tiddles likes to use it as a litter tray and leave entrails of small animals around there"

In my opinion, although cats are pets like dogs, they're still so different. Their needs and behaviours are different and I don't think they took to domestication as well as dogs so I consider them semi-domesticated rather than fully domesticated, or semi-wild. I guess some dogs had jobs that aren't natural behaviours for them in the wild like pulling sleds so they had to learn specific skills whereas cats were domesticated for their natural mouse-hunting abilities so they just got fed for being around and weren't pressured as much as dogs to adjust their wild behaviour. I dunno, that's just me speculating why the expectations are different for cats and dogs. I love both though.

I'll take that as 'I didn't know that I was actually attracting them by liberally sloshing buckets of a chemical that causes the worst behaviour around'. I suspect that 'cheers for the heads up about that, wish I'd known before' won't be forthcoming, but if it reduces the likelihood of you getting bitten again or opening the door to the smell of overstimulated Toms (and females, it affects them as well, just not quite so aggressively), that's still a good outcome.

I do wish cat owners would control their cats better. I get cat shit in my garden, a local tom keeps coming in and is very aggressive to both me and my dog (he will sit on the fence and launch himself at you - a pissed off cat is terrifying).

I have a friend whose cat went missing for almost a year. They got her back, and promptly installed a catio so her cat could never go AWOL again (she had also lost one to being hit by a car).

Saying that, a lot of people are vocal about their cat being allowed to free roam, yet are calling for the law to be changed so if you hit a cat when driving (if you even notice), you have to stop and report it like you would with a dog.

I was wondering this too. All of @QueenCamilla 's post is alien to me. None of that bizarre stuff ever happens in my neighbourhood, or to any cats I know/know of. You must live in a rough-as-fuck area @QueenCamilla

@EerieSilence

Sure, in the US they declaw them and they're never allowed outside. Great life for cats!

Exactly!

I am so glad the cat haters on here DO hate cats. Thank GOD they have no interest in having cats. I would fear for any cat in the 'care' of some posters on this thread.

It's people like this that the Cats Protection League and RSPCA were created for. The hatred and vitriol aimed at cats - and their owners (from some on here,) is actually disturbing and terrifying. I am worried that some of these posters may well be in charge of any animal actually. Some posts on here (many now deleted,) are actually horrific.

I was wondering this too. All of @QueenCamilla's post is alien to me. None of that bizarre stuff ever happens in my neighbourhood, or to any cats I know/know of. You must live in a rough-as-fuck area@QueenCamilla

@AlexaCanYouHearMe Yes, I do live in a socio-economically disatvantaged inner-city area. Hence you'll never get my vote for an unregulated pet ownership, mass migration or decriminalised drug use. We get the shady side of the moon here when it comes to those things.
And whilst on the topic of rough cats - the issue is only going to get worse now that the tenants will have a blanket right to pet ownership. I dread to think.