Page 4 | To think teachers should wear body cams

Ffs555 · 2023-10-17T20:19:16+00:00

Rail staff are wearing them, Wetherspoons staff had them on when I went in, it's becoming more common luckily. I know it isn't a foolproof solution but I think it would stop so many behavioural incidents. There are signs up in many public facing workplaces saying abuse won't be tolerated, yet it seems teachers/support staff are expected to put up with it 'because they're just kids'. I used to be a teacher, was threatened by a pupil, he got half a day in internal exclusion and that was it. I had a year 11 pupil make death threats about another teacher in front of me. I've had another year 11 male pupil walk up to me and grab the mouse out of my hand when I was on the pc. However have got off lightly compared to many teachers. Still, we're sworn at constantly and verbally abused. I have left teaching unfortunately due to the behaviour, my new role is much less stressful. You practically have to bring a weapon into a school to get permanently excluded, schools don't like to permanently exclude due to costs and reputation. We used to have a very difficult pupil who brought in a fake weapon one day. The headteacher himself said unfortunately it wasn't a real one, otherwise we could have excluded him permanently. Anyway, I don't know what the solution is, all this restorative conversation stuff doesn't work. Kids don't care about a detention or even a day's exclusion in a lot of cases.

DdraigGoch · 18/10/2023 02:13

TeaKitten · 17/10/2023 21:26

Yes let’s arm adults in schools with the ability to record children in all situations all day long. Can’t see any safe guarding issues there at all 🙄

Bodycam footage is tightly controlled where I work. You can't just access it on a whim.

DdraigGoch · 18/10/2023 02:19

JVC24601 · 17/10/2023 21:35

CCTV probably more practical than bodycams.

NC as potentially slightly identifiable but… one very loud very influential parent attempted to start a petition and protest against the school I teach in, because her wonderful cherub had been caught on CCTV vandalising the toilets, causing hundreds of pounds of damage. She was furious that we had CCTV as it was “disgusting”, “shocking” etc etc to record children going in and out- insinuating paedophilia etc. Her little angel was only messing around, of course.

Sadly she had a lot of support from other likeminded ‘shocked and disgusted’ parents aghast at the idea of CCTV. The complaint had no legal basis but it was very unpleasant for such a large part of the community to react so ridiculously.

The response from the school should have been:

"We wouldn't need CCTV if you hadn't brought up such a spoiled little shit. Now enjoy your next month of teaching them at home. Oh, and here's the bill for repairs".

Feel free to copy and paste (verbatim).

GreyhpundGirl · 18/10/2023 02:38

I'm.a secondary school teacher in a challenging school and wouldn't want that. The examples you give show more of a failure of the school to respond appropriately.

MrsMurphyIWish · 18/10/2023 04:23

I was pushed down the stairs when I was heavily pregnant with DS by a Yr 9 boy who had been suspended multiple times. I wish there had been CCTV/footage as there was no proof this one particular boy did it, so I was teaching him the next day.

Two days later I was pulled aside and told the boy would be moving classes and that’s all I needed to know. So confused until I got home … told DH and he said “I called your Head”. He wouldn’t tell me what he said but I’d never seen him so angry. It shouldn’t have taken that though to get the boy removed.

TeaKitten · 18/10/2023 06:31

Noname99 · 18/10/2023 00:22

Why would it be a safeguarding issue?
If a child makes a disclosure, the adult has to say that depending on what you say I may have to tell someone else. So what safeguarding issue is there? If every moment is recorded, then surely it safeguards the child too?

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Children would be put off making a disclosure when it’s on camera anyway. But it’s obvious any dodgy staff could abuse their ability to record children. There’s clear flaws with body cams. CCTV just makes more sense.

FrenchFancie · 18/10/2023 06:46

It wouldn’t make a difference, would probably just make things worse. Some kids would play up more, knowing they are being filmed ‘maybe it will get likes on YouTube!’
parents either won’t care, or won’t believe what they see - ‘little Tommy must have been provoked!’.
and the shy / scared / vulnerable kids just would clam up.

i got called an ‘f-img weirdo’ by a year 6 boy yesterday when he wouldn’t apologise for calling a girl a sl*t for wanting to play football. Parents apparently laughed when the head spoke to them at the end of the day, and found it funny. Little snot bag is back in my class today with no consequences.

TeaKitten · 18/10/2023 06:49

FrenchFancie · 18/10/2023 06:46

It wouldn’t make a difference, would probably just make things worse. Some kids would play up more, knowing they are being filmed ‘maybe it will get likes on YouTube!’
parents either won’t care, or won’t believe what they see - ‘little Tommy must have been provoked!’.
and the shy / scared / vulnerable kids just would clam up.

i got called an ‘f-img weirdo’ by a year 6 boy yesterday when he wouldn’t apologise for calling a girl a sl*t for wanting to play football. Parents apparently laughed when the head spoke to them at the end of the day, and found it funny. Little snot bag is back in my class today with no consequences.

As a serious question, can’t you give consequences? Teachers give detentions?

MrsHamlet · 18/10/2023 06:51

You think giving a detention will stop the shit behaviour?

LuisVitton · 18/10/2023 06:52

RMNofTikTok · 17/10/2023 22:09

God no. I worked in prisons for 4 years and didn't require one. If prison nurses don't require one why would teachers? I very much doubt schools are more violent than prisons, but the Pearl clutchers on here would have you thinking otherwise...

But no one cares if a prisoner gets duffed up but people do if it's children.

MrsMurphyIWish · 18/10/2023 06:52

TeaKitten · 18/10/2023 06:49

As a serious question, can’t you give consequences? Teachers give detentions?

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At my school they don’t get detentions. They’re given an “order mark”. 3 marks equal detentions but then parents ring up and have the detention rescinded as they’ll miss the coach/bus. Lunch is only 25 minutes so no time for detention then.

TeaKitten · 18/10/2023 06:53

MrsHamlet · 18/10/2023 06:51

You think giving a detention will stop the shit behaviour?

I didn’t say it would stop it. I said why can’t a teacher give a detention. It’s a consequence.

RMNofTikTok · 18/10/2023 06:53

"But no one cares if a prisoner gets duffed up but people do if it's children.*"
*
I thought the concern of this thread was teachers getting assaulted and how BWC could protect them? Are you suggesting the children have BWC?

TeaKitten · 18/10/2023 06:55

MrsMurphyIWish · 18/10/2023 06:52

At my school they don’t get detentions. They’re given an “order mark”. 3 marks equal detentions but then parents ring up and have the detention rescinded as they’ll miss the coach/bus. Lunch is only 25 minutes so no time for detention then.

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Then I can’t see that a bodycam would fix your problems if the school leaders don’t priorities behaviour anyway. 3 mark system sounds pointless, surely some things warrens out right detention. Obviously the warrant more than that but again, what’s a body cam going to do? Who even has time to review it?

LadyHag · 18/10/2023 06:56

Every pupil in school is funding.
Pupil expelled? One less chunk of income.

Exclusions and suspensions are monitored and another item looked at by OFSTED. So an informal in school isolation isnt required to be recorded the sane way.

Its shit - schools darent take action for financial and reputational repercussions.

MrsMurphyIWish · 18/10/2023 06:58

TeaKitten · 18/10/2023 06:55

Then I can’t see that a bodycam would fix your problems if the school leaders don’t priorities behaviour anyway. 3 mark system sounds pointless, surely some things warrens out right detention. Obviously the warrant more than that but again, what’s a body cam going to do? Who even has time to review it?

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True.

But with body cams maybe a Panorama style doc could be aired to how show verbal and physical abuse is just sort of everyday school life 🤷‍♀️

LuisVitton · 18/10/2023 07:00

Siameasy · 17/10/2023 22:03

Don’t believe it to be true or don’t want it to be true?
You know - yes it is a sweeping statement because this is how society operates, we talk about “in general”.
Everyone can think of a great single mum of course but
children of single mothers have poor outcomes statistically. More likely to end up in prison. Girls without fathers are more likely to be promiscuous.

There’s a reason why “wait til your father gets home” is a thing. Not enough male teachers either so those men who are teachers can pick better schools to teach in. Men are just more physically scary and have deeper voices and are simply better at discipline in general so we need to encourage male teachers as they’re underrepresented.

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Yes, so often there are problems for single parents - I wish they would hint as to why - it is always single parents (usually mothers ) who are used as examples when poverty comes up - is it the DFs not paying up, or the mother decides to have 3 children when she has no qualifications and no job.
If it's the fathers not paying up we need harsher penalties.
Many posts on MN about problems with DCs don't mention the DF whether they are there or not. The disinterested DF could be the problem affecting the DCs.

TeaKitten · 18/10/2023 07:02

But then ladyhag just said schools don’t want to put consequences in place for funding reasons, so what’s the point? Pupils aren’t ever going to start behaving if the education system doesn’t want to actually teach kids about behaviour and consequences. Teachers and pupils deserve better, so body cams are just missing the point really.

Username9917 · 18/10/2023 07:02

Yes I totally agree, but also for other uses! As a EYFS teacher in a private school, it would be to record the absolutely shameful way parents treat staff and speak to them!! Not all, but so many of them fulfil the stereotypical trope about how private school parents behave and it's shocking. Feeling so defeated right now having just survived a vicious tirade from a parent about, of all things, their child's costume (hand sewed by myself - I've built up a bank of costumes over the years I've been teaching) not being 'luxurious' enough for the role of a Wise Man. Just the latest in a long list - I adore the children I teach and I love my job, but I fantasise about it being parent free! And yes I am one myself!!

FrenchFancie · 18/10/2023 07:09

Year 6 is primary, we don’t give detentions in primary.

he’ll get a bit of a shock when he’s in the local (very strict!) senior school but then Mummy and Daddy will just the detention removed so he won’t miss the bus.

basically the parents either don’t care, or think that the teachers are wrong. I mean, we caught the same kid stealing last year and Mummy and Daddy said it was all a misunderstanding so they didn’t punish him. The kid he stole from didn’t get the item back either so…. Not sure what else we can do!!

Pollyputhekettleon · 18/10/2023 07:10

SoIRejoined · 17/10/2023 23:27

Well, what would happen if large numbers of children were expelled and not allowed to go to another school? They would be at risk from exploitation, county lines, violence at home etc. The outcomes for them would be v bad and would impact on society too.

I've heard that if a school excluded 5 pupils it's then expected to take 5 excluded from other local schools. I don't know if this is just in my area/academy chain or if it's a general policy. But expelling one kid is less attractive if you know they will be replaced by another .

So it really is a policy of 1. pretending schools are preventing any of that happening and 2. putting the needs of those children above everyone else in schools. I'm pretty sure no one has ever voted for such policies. Is it local authorities enforcing it or where does it come from do you know?

Ponoka7 · 18/10/2023 07:11

Siameasy · 17/10/2023 22:03

Don’t believe it to be true or don’t want it to be true?
You know - yes it is a sweeping statement because this is how society operates, we talk about “in general”.
Everyone can think of a great single mum of course but
children of single mothers have poor outcomes statistically. More likely to end up in prison. Girls without fathers are more likely to be promiscuous.

There’s a reason why “wait til your father gets home” is a thing. Not enough male teachers either so those men who are teachers can pick better schools to teach in. Men are just more physically scary and have deeper voices and are simply better at discipline in general so we need to encourage male teachers as they’re underrepresented.

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In the areas I've lived in and ime (working with children and families) it's shit/abusive/workshy/low level criminal dad's, rather than no dad, that is the issue. I was having that conversation with my decorator the other week. It's frustrating to see this generation still having planned babies to lads who aren't fit to be Dads and most are crap boyfriends. Single households are at a disadvantage. As for female promiscuity, most of those studies were done with the bias that girls shouldn't be as sexually active as boys.

Pollyputhekettleon · 18/10/2023 07:12

LadyHag · 18/10/2023 06:56

Every pupil in school is funding.
Pupil expelled? One less chunk of income.

Exclusions and suspensions are monitored and another item looked at by OFSTED. So an informal in school isolation isnt required to be recorded the sane way.

Its shit - schools darent take action for financial and reputational repercussions.

But why don't teachers themselves do something about it? They have unions, they've managed to strike about pay in the past. Why nothing about this?

Conkersinautumn · 18/10/2023 07:13

I feel this. I am getting spat at, kicked, punched and sworn at daily (midday supervision in an "outstanding" primary) in a small town. But, the other side of me feels these kids need privacy, they need to vent their frustration. It's obvious why they're so frustrated with life. I don't think shaming them is the answer

Pollyputhekettleon · 18/10/2023 07:15

Noname99 · 18/10/2023 00:15

Yep
Had a parent say “there is no way my son did this. I’ve spoken to him and I know when he’s lying”
Showed them the cctv footage where you could see him do it clear as day ….. parent didn’t even miss a beat ….”that’s not him”

Different day …. same shit… “he didn’t do it” Showed the cctv “he only did it cuz he’s been bullied”

The only answer is to move to an online school model. Teachers and children are protected from the utterly awful human beings they are out there (just delete/mute them but they are likely to not turn up anyway) and put all the money saved into in-person special schools for children whose disability/ SEN means they can’t do online

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That would be opposed by the same usual suspect who are implementing the current ideology of protecting the perpetrators above all though. They hated lockdowns in every country because those children were then less supervised by the state.

WonderingWanda · 18/10/2023 07:16

I don't think it would work. The endless number of parents that rang up to complain about their child's undeserved sanction in my last school was unreal and this would just add more fuel to the fire. They would demand to see footage and search desperately for one tiny slip up by the teacher 'You didn't say his name when you gave him the warning' or something. These parents just don't care if their child misbehaves or they take it as some sort of personal insult.