My husband and my father are both pigheaded arses

[PissyCornflakes]

NC'd, as I don't want to be identified.

My husband (OH) and I (along with two young children) currently live in the UK where OH is from, and my whole family lives in my home country. OH and I are moving to my home country to be closer to my family (I am very close with my family) as we have no support network in the UK. It is a joint decision to move.

OH and my father (DF) are both incredibly obstinate. It is a trait that I really dislike in both of them, but something that I can generally live with. Nobody is perfect, blah blah blah.

That said...it is now affecting my family in a big way.

This past summer, we spent a month at month at my parents' house, which is when all of the pigheadedness came to a head.

DF feels that OH is lazy and a fairly uninvolved parent. I understand why he thinks that, as OH was significantly depressed when DS1 was born, and when my parents came to visit, OH effectively did nothing to help out. DF has since been treating OH quite passive aggressively. In front of people, DF would make snide comments about how OH should do more with the kids and do more to help me out, but when it was just the two of them, he would be perfectly nice and joke around. I have called out DF and made it clear that his treatment of OH is unacceptable. DF has not apologized, but slightly eased up on the passive aggression.

OH is rightly angry at how my DF has treated him. However, his response was been to leave whenever DF entered the room, which then meant that he wasn't spending time with the children. Now that we are home, OH makes frequent comments about how he hates my DF. He has said in no uncertain terms that my DF will not be welcome in our home unless he apologizes sufficiently. I have asked OH to be the bigger person and start the conversation with DF, to which he has refused and said that it needs to come from DF.

I am now stuck in the middle (along with my mom, who has also spoken to DF about apologizing). My parents want to visit us next month and OH doesn't want DF in our house, which effectively keeps my children away from their grandparents. My parents are phenomenal grandparents and talk to my children every day on video calls. They adore each other. I want them to be together. I miss my parents and want to be with them. But I obviously can't bring someone in the house who is essentially bullying my OH.

Beyond my parents not being able to visit because of this, I am extremely worried about what it will be like when we move. If OH and DF don't sort this out, I don't see how we will be able to have the support system that we are moving specifically for. My DM and DF are together and can't be expected to separate every time they see us. I desperately need my family on my life and am not willing to cut them out.

AIBU that my DF and OH need to grow up and talk to each other like civilized people? Or am I allowing my DF to abuse my OH? Or am I putting up with my OH being a petulant child?

Sorry this was so long. I don't want to drip feed.

Honestly I am really not sure why you think in this situation that moving is going to make your life any easier? Sounds to me like an utter recipe for disaster, unless you think that your marriage is over anyway (in which case it sounds like a sensible idea). How do you think this support network is going to work if your DF isn’t even allowed in the house and your DH won’t (I imagine) want to go to their house? Surely it will be a massive strain on both your marriage and your relationship with your parents and the kids will get caught in the fall out.

I think in your position I would put all plans to move on hold for the time being, tell your DF why you won’t be moving and tell your DH that he now has to be/ sort out/ pay for a support network in the UK.

Even if one of them backs down this time, it sounds like moving is going to lead to years of this kind of crap behaviour from both sides. They are going to be keeping score about past transgressions and the children will be stuck in the middle as they will know that daddy and grandad don't get along.
It sounds like moving will create a pile of new problems and it won't be long before your h begs you to move far away from your dad.

So how do I move forward? Do I have to cut my dad out of my life, and therefore the lives of my children? I love my dad and he is a fantastic grandparent.

Sounds to me rather like your father had a point; he is disappointed in your husband.

What's your OH like now? Can you hand on heart say that he pulls his weight with the DC and around the house?

I suppose, in your home country, you can visit DF with kids, and without DH. You will be better supported, and things might work out in time, with you all in the same country at least. I assume DH has no problem with having DM visit you. Is your DH definately happy leaving his family and friends? If he's doing that mainly for you and the children, your father should be recognising that as being worthy of respect, and be perepared to apologise ans move on.

Has OH recognised that he let you down, and that your dad’s behaviour comes from concern about his little girl? Has it occurred to him to try and prove your dad wrong? Or is he expecting change to happen without him making any changes?

OH helps out much more around the house and is absolutely a good parent to the children. I am a SAHM, so obviously I do more parenting as I have them all day and OH doesn't, but he spends time with them every day and deals with behavioural aspects of raising them as well as playing.

I think there’s maybe a difficult conversation to be had with your husband - you need this family support, especially if he gets ill again. Does he react badly to conversations about the impact of his illness on you? It sounds like your Dad may have a point, especially if he now thinks it’s ok to flounce off when annoyed, again opting out of childcare.

While OH has stepped up his game in private, he doesn't show it as much in front of my DF. His reasoning is that we were actively there so that the kids could spend time with their grandparents, so he took a step back. I see where my DF is coming from, but I don't think he is willing to accept that OH does pull his weight at home.

This played out with my parents.

My dad was very uninvolved after I was born and my mum's parents stepped up and did a large amount of unpaid childcare so my mum could work as he was basically not working and not doing childcare.

Unsurprisingly they thought he was useless. This is because he was.

Sounds like the same is happening with your oh - you say he wasn't doing stuff. You forgive that because you love him, your father just sees his daughter being massively let down.

To be honest, I think your father probably sees the situation how it is, and your oh doesn't want him round because he knows damn well he should have stepped up and didn't.

However, your father is going to have to learn to keep his mouth shut if he wants to support you, as it sounds like your oh will otherwise make life very difficult.

I'd suggest you put it to your dad in those terms.

It doesn't really paint your oh in a very good light to be honest.

Your dad has a point, is he still not as involved then? For your dad to keep this going ?

The problem with moving closer is that all the faults on both sides will be highlighted and seem more extreme. It could lead to real estrangement across both families not just between your husband and your dad. You will row with DH. Your mother will row with your dad. If she decides to see DC without him it will have repercussions on your parents marriage. I wouldn't be moving nearer under these circumstances. You say you love your dad. Better to have a relationship in separate countries than to find yourself ending up separating from your dad to support your husband when you all love near each other. From a distance these things have a way of dying down over time and a couple of years down the line both sides swallow their pride/anger/hurt and manage short visits together. When you live near and pressure is on for a quick resolution things tend to escalate. 💐

Is he truly a fantastic grandparent if he is making snide comments about the grandchildren's parent in front of the grandchildren?
If a parent spoke poorly about the other parent in custody cases it counts as parental alienation - I’m assuming your children are too young at the moment to understand but denigrating their parent is hardly a good habit to get into.

Is he truly a fantastic grandparent if he has no empathy or kindness in the face of mental health challenges?

A positive relationship with a grandparent is a wonderful thing. However, it is secondary to a child’s relationship to their parent. Your father needs to understand that the consequences to his actions is a limited relationship with his grandchildren. If he would like to have a closer relationship then he needs to make an effort and apologise (with changed behaviour!).

Also, I hate the “be the bigger person” crap. What you’re really saying is “the other person is unreasonable, but you are more of a door mat - can you please lay flatter so that they can walk over you more easily”.

I would guess that you look very tired and your parents are this. Your father in particular.

Your husband needs to show that he is being a good father and conspicuously. Instead it sounds like he has many excuses as to why he did not.

Maybe your father is wiser than you OP

see this not are this!

It's not up to your DF to pull your DH up on his parenting or what 'help' he gives you. If you are happy with the status quo then you need to speak to your DF to tell him that you're happy with how things are and that he is causing difficulties in your relationship, which will impact his beloved dgc.

If you're not happy with your DH you need to have words and get on the same page.

I don't want OH to be a doormat, I want him to start the conversation with my DF so that the family can move forward.

OH's past transgressions are very much due to depression. He is on medication now and is stable, so he addressed the issue and dealt with it. I am under no illusions that my DF is perfect, and I recognize that he holds a stigma around mental illness.

It might sound dramatic to say, but I honestly think moving close to your parents is going to spell the end of your marriage. Your husband and father don't get on. You are attributing that to a grudge over one incident years ago, but it's more likely they are just different people who clash. Moving to live next to them will cause so much stress for your husband, that's not fair on him, and therefore not fair on your kids.

If your husband is a good husband and father then he is entitled to feel comfortable in his home and in your family environment. It's your father who needs to adjust to that, and accept your choice of life partner. You are not his little girl in need of protection, you are a grown woman who has a husband and children. Your father criticising your husband in front of other people is just plain rudeness.

You don't need to cut anyone out of your life. Spend time with your father without your husband being there. But stick up for your husband, the father of your children. Don't live next to your parents until such time as you can all get on.

We wouldn't be living next to them, they would be in the same city instead of an 8 hour flight away.

Your dad trained you to live with an irritating quality, so you’ve married a man with an irritating quality.

well done dad. Boiling frogs come to mind. Both of them think it’s ok for you and your mum to live with the consequences of their bad behaviour.

You and your mum should move in together. Leave the grumpy men to it.

Is there anything else they have in common other than being pigheaded? Sounds like they're kind of similar- might be that if they can bond over something they will end up getting on really well.
In the meantime if I were you i'd set boundaries that they can't be rude about each other to you. I have many thoughts about my MIL that I don't subject DP to.

I think that moving would lead to divorce too.
Things are difficult now but living so close would mean that the problems are magnified because of the increased contact. An 8 hour flight provides longer breaks for the men.

As an international couple, moving to your country then splitting a few months later means that the children would be residents in your parents country and therefore you could live there with them. Splitting in the UK means that you would be stuck there unless your ex gave you permission. Since you are able to tolerate your father's abusive behaviour better than your husband's perhaps this is the "smartest" thing to do for you.

FWIW your father is not a great grandfather if he treats your h one way in public then another privately. Even if your kids aren't old enough to understand what grandpa is saying, they will one day and the behaviour will hurt them. I'm not saying that your h is great either - it sounds like he's still pretty lazy about family life which isn't good for the kids or you.

They have very different interests, which I think is the root of the problem. OH is quite nerdy and likes board games, programming, and enjoys being on his own. DF is sporty and always wants to be the centre of attention. The traits they share are basically stubbornness and enjoying a strong drink.

I guess I’m struggling to understand why it is your husband’s responsibility to enable the family to move forward?

Your husband is quite happy with you and your children as his family, he doesn’t need your father in his life and quite possibly doesn’t view your father’s involvement in his and your children’s lives as you do.
Your father was wrong (maybe not in his opinion but definitely in the manner in which he acted and in interfering in someone else’s relationship), wants to have a relationship with his grandchildren but not at the expense of his pride. Your father is the one that wants something, your father is the one missing out… your father is who I would be expecting to make the first move if he wants the family to move forward.