My husband and my father are both pigheaded arses

[PissyCornflakes]

NC'd, as I don't want to be identified.

My husband (OH) and I (along with two young children) currently live in the UK where OH is from, and my whole family lives in my home country. OH and I are moving to my home country to be closer to my family (I am very close with my family) as we have no support network in the UK. It is a joint decision to move.

OH and my father (DF) are both incredibly obstinate. It is a trait that I really dislike in both of them, but something that I can generally live with. Nobody is perfect, blah blah blah.

That said...it is now affecting my family in a big way.

This past summer, we spent a month at month at my parents' house, which is when all of the pigheadedness came to a head.

DF feels that OH is lazy and a fairly uninvolved parent. I understand why he thinks that, as OH was significantly depressed when DS1 was born, and when my parents came to visit, OH effectively did nothing to help out. DF has since been treating OH quite passive aggressively. In front of people, DF would make snide comments about how OH should do more with the kids and do more to help me out, but when it was just the two of them, he would be perfectly nice and joke around. I have called out DF and made it clear that his treatment of OH is unacceptable. DF has not apologized, but slightly eased up on the passive aggression.

OH is rightly angry at how my DF has treated him. However, his response was been to leave whenever DF entered the room, which then meant that he wasn't spending time with the children. Now that we are home, OH makes frequent comments about how he hates my DF. He has said in no uncertain terms that my DF will not be welcome in our home unless he apologizes sufficiently. I have asked OH to be the bigger person and start the conversation with DF, to which he has refused and said that it needs to come from DF.

I am now stuck in the middle (along with my mom, who has also spoken to DF about apologizing). My parents want to visit us next month and OH doesn't want DF in our house, which effectively keeps my children away from their grandparents. My parents are phenomenal grandparents and talk to my children every day on video calls. They adore each other. I want them to be together. I miss my parents and want to be with them. But I obviously can't bring someone in the house who is essentially bullying my OH.

Beyond my parents not being able to visit because of this, I am extremely worried about what it will be like when we move. If OH and DF don't sort this out, I don't see how we will be able to have the support system that we are moving specifically for. My DM and DF are together and can't be expected to separate every time they see us. I desperately need my family on my life and am not willing to cut them out.

AIBU that my DF and OH need to grow up and talk to each other like civilized people? Or am I allowing my DF to abuse my OH? Or am I putting up with my OH being a petulant child?

Sorry this was so long. I don't want to drip feed.

You and your mum should move in together. Leave the grumpy men to it.

Love this- it sounds like the best solution for everyone

Honestly if all else fails, I would happily take mom!

I think this is your problem with your Dad.
Why don't you speak to your Dad?

He's belittled your husband.

He's not a fantastic grandparent if he's belittling their father is he?

You need to take your Dad aside and calmly explain to him how this is affecting you.

Tell him you have chosen this man to be your husband and you expect him (your Dad) to respect that and treat him with respect.

Tell him your mother took him (your Dad) on even though she could see he was a sulky, difficult and obstinate person.

You could say 'sometimes a woman chooses to marry a difficult man and it's not easy. But that doesn't mean they run out on them'.

See if that penny drops with your Dad!

I'm not sure. There are 2 sides to every story & I don't think you Dad comes out of this covered in glory. I also think that video calls with grandparents every day is too much. I have lived with suffocating parents / grandparents all my life and I would have done things differently with the benefit of hindsight. Fortunately my marriage survived.

It's all well and good to say that we shouldn't move. But I need a support network. I have family (brothers as well) and friends in my home country. OH works long hours and I am in a country with no other family and very few friends, trying to raise young children. OH's family are not nearby and aren't particularly involved beyond the odd flying visit. Financially, we can't afford to pay for help.

I wonder if your OH wants to move really. My guess is not

Also,

"My parents want to visit us next month and OH doesn't want DF in our house, which effectively keeps my children away from their grandparents."
I think you are adding too much emotional stress into the situation with thoughts like this. Your parents can visit, stay in a hotel/b&b nearby and still spend every day with the kids. Them staying elsewhere does not "effectively keep them away". It just adds a bit of breathing space for everyone.

"But I obviously can't bring someone in the house who is essentially bullying my OH."
You could try saying this to your parents. It might help your father recognise the situation as it is.

Your df is out of order and needs to apologise. It is not his place to comment especially as he clearly does not know how unwell your husband was. Speak to df and be v clear with him how things were and how they have improved and ask him to keep his opinions to himself or ultimately the relationship with you and his dgc will suffer. Suggest that maybe sf steps up and offers your dh some male support.

If I was your OH I wouldn't been keen to start a conversation about my mental heath difficulties with someone who had been critical of me/bullied me in the past.

Thank you to everyone who has commented.

I have texted my DF to ask him (again) to start the conversation with OH. I'm sure we will talk on the phone about it later today.

Your dad needs to apologise.

It's your DF's job to extend an olive branch. You're moving closer to your family, so it's important that your DF knows his place ahead of this move. If he knows that he can get away with this type of behaviour then he'll continue to do it. Your marriage will not survive long-term if you don't prioritise your immediate family over appeasing your DF and his ego.

Moving countries because you are so in need of a support network does rather suggest that your OH is still not pulling his weight and giving you a break. I imagine that is how your parents may see it - that they are being drafted in to make up for OH shortcomings.

Yes, this is my take. The OP married her father, and she and her mother are now pussyfooting around in the middle.

Your father needs to bend more because he's the grandfather rather than the father. By not apologizing he chooses to create problems for you and making things awkward. By being stubborn he inevitably chooses the path that will lead to less contact with his grandchildren. That's not a good grandfather at all.

I understand why you want to move but does the positive of having your family around outweigh the negative of inevitably having to manage your father and husband ? It sounds like this will continue to happen and in between incidents you will end up on eggshells fearing the next fallout. I understand that your h will want to move so that you are happy but I'm wondering how much thought he's put into the rest? Does he imagine you only seeing your parents at their house? How does he imagine special occasions like Christmas working?

I'd say rather than asking for apologies. I'd say they need to draw a line.

Absolutely no pa comments will be tolerated, and you should ask your df to leave if he starts whilst in your home. If you're at his, you all get up and leave.

However your dp needs to step up and parent, not 'help'. Go out and leave him to cope, that's the only way he'll have confidence.

If your father carries on then he's bullying your dp. And I wouldn't have that in front of my children.

Have you stopped to consider how that conversation is going to go?

By the sounds of it, your dad won't apologise - and it should be pretty obvious that no amount of "But I do support her and help around the house all the time!" from your husband is going to convince him, because that's exactly what somebody who doesn't help out would say. Therefore, it can only end in an argument and subsequent escalation.

Your husband is rightly annoyed, because your father won't stop belittling him, but he also knows that a direct conversation between the two of them is likely to be more of a confrontation; far from being pigheaded, his approach is the simplest way to avoid you having to make a choice between your parents and your marriage, because it would only ever escalate from there. I've been in this situation, and exactly that happened.

The only way to resolve this permanently without losing one of them is for a) your husband to stop leaving the room whenever your dad's there, and b) for you to strongly refute it when your dad starts making his snarky comments, in front of your husband. We have endless threads on here about husbands not stepping up to support their wives when his parents are being assholes, and the conclusion is always the same - he should support his wife, and his parents are his responsibility.

It works the other way round, too - call your dad out in front of the audience he thought he could preach to, and force the conversation with all of you there. Make it clear the reason for your husband's original "sin", and how unreasonable it is to treat him badly because of it. Your dad will be pissed off for a while, but he'll get over it; more importantly, it shows your husband that you're supporting him and that you get it, rather than just treating him like he's the one being a dickhead about it all.

This is really tricky,

From your husband's perspective, he doesn't get on with your df. There's no negative to him refusing to speak to/allow df in the house as what you want your parents for is to support you and the kids. So no direct impact on him.

To be fair to him, I wouldn't want to be around people who make those sort of comments.

From your df's perspective, you are moving to get more support, so he is essentially being asked to put up with someone he doesn't like in order to provide some kind of support - being an adult to talk to, spending time with grandkids, potentially taking one/all kids to give you a break.

So no wins for him personally either.

In your shoes I'd keep them apart for a bit.

Respect everyone's boundaries and rebuild relationships.

Parents stay at a hotel, primarily spend time with you and kids while he is working. You say he works long hours so that shouldn't be hard.

I think it’s difficult to say what to do- personally I think I would start with giving them some space rather than moving closer to your parents. Visit your parents on your own with the kids and see how that goes. Then once the immediate tension has died down explain to your DH that you want the support and he has to live with your DF to an extent because it creates a better life for your kids, explain to DF that if he wants a close relationship with his grandchildren he needs to behave a bit better towards their father.

But if this doesn’t work, yes I think you have to decide between support network and marriage and live with that choice, because sure as hell if you move in these circumstances the marriage won’t last. Have you considered doing more to establish a support network here, like getting a part time job, volunteering or attending local groups? Are the kids at school as this can often be a good chance to expand your network. Also if you work then you can afford a bit more childcare and/ or more visits to see your parents in the holidays, if necessary without your DH. If your DH and DF just don’t like each other then I think this might be the best option for the time being.

So DH was ill /depressed he got help upped his game
but not happy to perform in front of your dad to pacify him
tbh when my in laws come round I take a back seat fil probably thinks the same of me

he still thinks he’s top of the tree and his place to interfere
rather than confront it i inwardly roll my eyes and take a back seat

It's difficult for sure. I would say though - if I had recovered from depression and sorted myself out, but still found myself on the receiving end of passive aggressive BS from my in laws, I would not be planning on spending time with them either (and would absolutely expect my spouse to support me!). I also feel broadly that being a "fantastic grandparent" includes being supportive of the parents. I'm not sure the open hostility towards their dad is much fun for your kids!!

Have you been straight with your dad that you are not happy with his behaviours either? So not just pitting them against each other - clearly pushing back on his crappy behaviours each time they are on display?

@PissyCornflakes

Why do you need a support network? I understand you are in a foreign country which can be daunting but do your children have special needs, do you work long hours? Why are you unable to cope without your entire family near you? As for moving near them, you are certainly prioritising your parents/siblings over your marriage. Why is it so essential for your kids to be close to their grandparents if it means their own father is alienated? I'm sorry, I just don't get it. Moving to be near your family is obviously a recipe for disaster unless you feel your marriage has run it's course, or there are other reasons you have not specified.

There is the concern that if your Dad doesn't suck it up for a while, your husband could refuse to move altogether - and prevent you from taking the children - whereas, if you were to split up/whatever once you're already living around your support network, it would be far easier to stay there.

OP, I would say your marriage is in real jeopardy.

Your father is a bully and he has bullied and humiliated in public your husband.

If this was you being spoken to like this by his family I would be telling you pack your bags and don't look back.

You accept your husband was genuinely ill and helped himself so the idea that your bully of a father would mock him is really dreadful.

I would be telling your husband not to move close to your family.

Your husband may be stubborn but to be mocked and publicly humiliated over depression is quite dreadful.

I think you sound very passive about how difficult your father is.

In your place I would have absolutely furious at my fathers treatment of my husband.

It was not your fathers place to behave as he did.

Your husband may be digging in his heels here but I think you need to think long and hard about your marriage and if you want it to survive.

Your father needs to be prepared to sincerely apologise and your husband needs to open to it.

If not your marriage sounds doomed to me, and your father needs to be aware of the grief his unasked behaviour has caused you and your family.

I think your father is understandably upset that his daughter ended up with a depressive lazyarse for a husband. Perhaps your mum could have a word and make him see that his remarks don't make life any easier for you.
But I don't see why he has to crawl and apologise. If your husband chooses to leave the room when he visits - well, is anybody going to miss him?