To worry about brother taking oestrogen

[ChamomileHoneyTea]

My brother has just announced he is trans and is taking oestrogen he has purchased online. I’m worried that what he’s taking may not be legit and he is not being reviewed by a doctor. He insists he has done research on appropriate dosage. He says the NHS wait times for transitioning are too long.

It's not their sister.

It's their brother.

Born a male. Dies a male.

He doesn't need extra hormones, us women do. Think menopause, HRT, periods, PCOS, pcc. PMS. Etc.

Men don't suffer from the above,

Actually it's not.
You have had a brother for most of your life if not all of it. You form your own identity around your family unit - I am the elder sister to a younger brother. Your family dynamics reflect that. All your memories and formative learning are coloured by this.

Then one day your sibling says "your relational identity doesn't matter to me. I'm going to throw a hand grenade into your life and expect you to go with it immediately without any transition phase for you to emotionally adjust too"

It might be a belief you just don't share because it is essentially an act of faith to believe you are a different sex and you may find the whole thing utterly sexist and homophobic. But hell since someone in your family believes now you must also join the one truth faith.

And if you don't do all the 'right things' some dickhead on the internet will be along to abuse you for being concerned about your brother. And that person probably hasn't had similar happen in their own core family. They might know someone trans but it's completely different when it's your family because of the collective and formative identity formation aspect.

People like this dont understand the impact. When you are asked in polite conversation 'do you have any brothers and sisters?' a simple question becomes a minefield. What someone is asking is a way to relate to you. They want to know if you have a sister like them and how your relationship was growing up and whether you go on etc etc. And that just it. It's NOT the same if you have a brother who transitioned. You can't relate. And then there's the people who don't want to get into the politics of it and are weary about what your politics are.

Then there's the trope about 'but they are just the same person' when they are literally asking you to treat them as someone completely different. People who are not closely just do not get it in the same way.

The OP clearly cares about her brother and is concerned for his health. Which she rightly should, because not only are they taking drugs which are harmful to males and have significant side effects but he's buying them online so he has no idea if what he is buying is legit or cut with god knows what else.

But yeah you crack on with your virtue signalling self righteousness. I'm sure it makes you feel proud and big and clever.

You have absolutely no bloody idea.

207 votes. 93% think she's right to worry about her brother taking drugs harmful to men from a dodgy source.

I take it you think it's ok for people who have a very high comorbidity level of autism and mental health problems, to be taking dodgy drugs which aren't under medical supervision (and my clash with any other medications they are taking)? Drugs that have significant side effects.

Or are you just here to say 'all terfs' are bad' for caring about vulnerable people because the only thing that matters is affirmation not health. Or the well being of the OP who is worried sick.

Take your 'moral high ground' and shove it. It's easy to virtue signal from afar.

Please stop you are not helping.

Is that addressed at me?

Cos it is absolutely important that family members know that their own feelings are valid and their concerns are valid and its unhealthy for them to tread on eggs shells because of someone else. It's a dynamic which is wrong.

It's ok to have different beliefs.

We need to start seeing trans through the lens of belief. A belief that is not necessarily shared. One that it's ok to say, I don't believe you can change sex, I believe that saying you can is deeply sexist and homophobic.

If you don't like that, well I'm sorry, but no one should be compelled to believe what someone else believes.

Be respectful in their presence yes, but we need room to also be able to voice concerns - for people we care about - we cant do that without being able to say that someone is male when they are and to say what is our own truth.

There's no ill feeling towards trans- people.

Plenty of, rightful concern, over taking unlicensed drugs.

My only ill- feeling is to those who are trying to suggest that because he is trans no one should be concerned about the impact on his body. Why aren't trans activists equally concerned about young people harming their bodies with unlicensed drugs? It baffles me.

Oh look, another handmaiden chiding women for having opinions. Bore off.

No it was supposed to be a reply to @RealTopekaPeople 🤦‍♀️

I think you're right to be concerned OP. Firstly, drugs bought off the internet could literally be anything. Secondly, if it is oestrogen, extraneous oestrogen has a number of deleterious effects on male-born bodies, such as weight gain, tiredness, mood swings, depression, mood lability, decline in fertility, memory function loss, osteoporosis and heart problems.

Is your sibling aware that it's not necessary to take hormones to be trans? Many trans thinkers and activists have said that it's one's perception of one's gender that's important, and hormones and surgeries are not necessary for validation.

He is in his 30s so I can’t do much but thanks to whoever suggested Gender GP, I’ve taken a look at their website and will show this to him so he can receive medical advice.

I am not transphobic, I am however concerned that he will cause irreversible harm to his body given that the oestrogen has been purchased online and he is not under medical care.

He hasn’t actually brought up pronouns/asked me to call him my sister so for now I refer to him as he/him and my brother. He has literally only just come out and the whole family are still coming to terms with it, it will take us some time to adjust. The immediate concern is his health.

I’d ask them what outcome they want taking these (for the rest of their life). Are they actually believing that they will look like /feel like /pass as ‘a woman’ and that this will make them feel happier and more fulfilled in their life?

What will they be able to do if the drugs are ‘successful’ (in their eyes?). What will they do when the they are not ‘successful’ (ie is it all purely for cosmetic purposes?).

What else are they doing to help their MH? What is their ‘dream outcome’ and is it in any way realistic?

And I suppose the NHS will have to pick up the pieces, because taking pills you buy off the internet is far more riskier than taking prescribed drugs that your body doesnt need in the first place.

Just don’t buy drugs off the internet. God knows what’s in them and without a doctor prescribing/monitoring you, you are asking for serious health problems.

Gender GP - the doctor who was struck off and has had suicides? The one who hands out drugs like jelly beans for £££££? That the one?

If GenderGP is the Webberleys, I'd look them up extremely carefully before recommending them to your brother..

Another one here to urge you to be cautious about Gender GP. I'd do some background reading on their ethics.

@LadyBevvy he wears dresses and makeup and does his nails. We suggested he continue to do these things without taking hormones and going down the surgery route but he refused.

@BabyStopCryin his end goal is to walk down the street and pass as a woman. I pointed out that despite hormones and surgery the chance would be slim (he is over 6ft and has a very muscular frame) but he insists he will eventually get there.

Anyway the above is none of my business, it’s his choice. I just want him to do this safely and under the guidance of a medical professional.

howso?

Not everything is "transphobic" much as you may say so.

There are serious side effects to taking some drugs, and that is why they have to be prescribed by a qualified doctor.

aw love him, his chances of actually passing are very slim, tbh.

I would suggest that your family continue to treat him with love but try to persuade him to go to the GP.

However. I think the best you can hope for is that he will receive only affirmation and be pointed in the direction of where to get the drugs legally, and where to get treatments to help "feminise" him (hair removal etc)

‘walk down the street and pass as a woman’. Then what? Will he sound like a woman, move like a woman, think like a woman, have the experience of a girl/woman, bleed like a woman, have babies…..

He needs to think hard about ‘what next’ and what happens is he isn’t ‘passing’? When he speaks to people/gets to know them/makes friends/meets a potential partner - he won’t ‘pass’ for ever. Then what. He is storing up heartache for himself.

@ChamomileHoneyTea
I thought that the now daughter of a friend would never pass as a woman but while taking hormones they're beginning to really look feminine. I think some trans women have facial surgery too which obviously helps.
I do think your brother (or soon to be sister) should get medical supervision & support though. It's a very hard process to go through mentally as I've seen with several trans women.

Can I ask why he hasn't seen a doctor and is buying drugs online, doctors are well used to dealing with gender dysphoria and will send him to the correct specialist. It's incredibly risky,not to mention unnecessary, buying these drugs online. It is also advisable to see a psychiatrist to verify that he does genuinely wish to transition because of gender dysphoria and there isn't something else going on emotionally.

The irony of someone accusing others of having a stereotypical way of looking at gender and then describing herself as a "hyperfemme cis woman".

You're a woman. The adjectives you are inserting in there are stereotypes.

The OP's brother is not present in this conversation and cannot be offended by people using correctly sexed pronouns when talking about him anonymously and in his absence. The OP is seeking advice and as such it is helpful for everyone to understand what is actually happening, i.e. a man is taking what he thinks is oestrogen, purchased online from an unknown and probably dodgy seller.

Using wrong sex pronouns would result in confusion and inappropriate advice.

The Gender GP that was set up by someone who has since been struck off for medical malpractice? That Gender GP?

I completely understand why you’d be so worried.

I would fully support him (but not in a way that encourages him) but tell him that these pills are fake and won’t do anything or will make him seriously ill and so he needs to see his GP.

He obviously has MH issues and pills online can be dangerous.

Unfortunately there is not much support for adults with MH unless the issues are really serious and they’re at risk of harming someone or killing themselves.

Gender GP are a controversial organisation and work on affirmation only. They’re also known to undertake possible illegal practices with some of their Docs suspended.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-64956259

He needs to go to his GP, not one of these orgs with a vested interest.