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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Sister demands half the profit from the sale of the house after not paying for 16 years.

212 replies

TheBorgPrincess · 16/10/2023 20:50

Usual disclaimer- all names have been changed for privacy.

I (41F) bought a house with my younger sister Claudia (34F) 17 years ago (2006). Both our names went on the Mortgage at my parent’s behest. To make Claudia ‘Feel grown up’ and perhaps she would be inclined ‘to take the bills seriously’. As was earning more money than her at the time, we agreed that I would pay two thirds of all bills and Claudia would pay the remainder. (Somewhere in all the paperwork, I do remember ticking a box that said Tenants in common and not tenants in Law. Which I believe recognises an uneven split in ownership?)
Anyway, after 9 months of living together and after a silly argument about the washing up. Claudia packed up her things and left to go back home and live with our parents. I really don’t think she could afford her share of the bills and didn’t like spending her money on living essentials. Claudia promptly handed her key over to our dad and nothing was discussed or agreed. Our relationship was slightly fractured after this, but we remained cordial at family gatherings.
I really struggled to afford the bills on my own at first, but by taking a second job and knuckling down at work I earned a promotion and was soon comfortably able to afford everything with a decent quality of life.
Skip to 10 years later and Claudia is in a relationship with Matt. Matt ‘Flips houses’ for profit. Selling some and renting out others. He’s made a successful business out of this. Out of the blue I receive a scathing text message from Claudia demanding I remortgage immediately to take her name off the mortgage. From what I understand Matt had maxed out the amount of properties he could get with just his name and wanted to start using Claudia’s. She states that she doesn’t want to be bought out, just her name taking off the mortgage. She’ll even help pay for the legal fees. I get to own 100% of the house, she gets to build a property empire with Matt. Win-Win! Off I trot to a Mortgage advisor and explain the situation and there’s a few options- I just need to get the house valued. I pay my fee. Alas, the house is in negative equity! The mortgage advisor completely vanishes in the ether, doesn’t return my calls. I get a nasty text message from Claudia (GOD! I wish I’d kept these!) that she’s going to get a solicitor involved and force me to sell the house at a loss. I was absolutely heartbroken at the thought of being forced to give up my cute little house and my home of over a decade. I really didn’t what to do. My Parents aren't much help- they just shrug their shoulders. A few months later Claudia and Matt split up- all goes quiet, and I breathe a sigh of relief.
Fast forward another 5 years. I get offered a fantastic job opportunity BUT it involves a relocation ASAP! The company I work for offers to pay for a full relocation package- the whole she-bang plus they’ll pay for rent on a house for 6 months close to where I need to be so I have chance to sell my house.
No takers. The Estate agent recommend renting it out. It’s in a great location if you commute and it’s close to a lot of amenities, the area has had a bit of gentrification. It’s barely on the rental market for 24hrs before It’s snapped up. I rent it out for just enough to cover the mortgage and the landlord insurance, hoping it’s an investment for further down the line.
So, to be clear I try to sell the house – Claudia is aware but is not interested. I rent the house out- Claudia is aware but not interested and makes no comment on the situation.
4 years ago, the tenants stop paying rent (Just scumbags, but that’s a whole other story). After a lengthy year long battle which nearly broke me mentally and financially-They tried every trick in the book. I secure a successful eviction order and after the bailiffs have kicked them out, I am left with a completely trashed house. It was disgusting. Claudia is aware of this and makes no comment. My parents after seeing me struggle financially help me with the costs of a quick whitewash, several tip runs and a professional deep clean so I can get it back on the market to sell.

For the past year I had to pay both the mortgage and my own household bills. There’s just my wage, as a single person in a Cost-of-Living Crisis. I’ve blown all my savings, maxed out my credit card and had to take a loan out to make ends meet. I was hoping that the proceeds of the sale would allow me to pay everything off, get me a new car and a modest deposit on another house.

In what feels like the only good news of 2023. I have a buyer for the house. I didn’t quite get what I wanted, but I can’t afford to go on like this any longer. I want rid and quick.

Claudia is now asking about how much her share of the profit is, and how much is left on the mortgage. To be quite clear she hasn’t paid a penny towards the upkeep or mortgage of that house for over 16 YEARS! I am shocked but not surprised by the sheer audacity. Somebody has whispered in her ear that as her name is still on the mortgage she’s entitled to HALF of the profits from the sale! I have also found out that she’s taken out a large loan (for a boob job) stating that she is a property owner. My parents don’t want to get involved. They don’t want to come between sisters! My Mother hints that I should take pity on her as she’s now a single mother of two, while my dad thinks I should get legal advice and try to fight her in court.

Is there anything I can do? Or is it more fool me for not remortgaging sooner? She’s set foot in the house twice in the 16 years since she left, and apart from when she was in a relationship with Matt hasn’t said anything and was quite happy to let me keep her credit score nice and high as I’ve never missed a payment. I’m worried that if she doesn’t get her own way she’ll refuse to sign for the sale of the house.

OP posts:
Saschka · 16/10/2023 22:59

Rosscameasdoody · 16/10/2023 22:55

You don’t pay Capital Gains Tax when you sell your home if you have one home and you've lived in it as your main home for all the time you've owned it.

OP hasn’t lived in it for four years, and the sister hasn’t lived in it for 16 years.

Merrymouse · 16/10/2023 23:00

If you are going to sell the house you will have to pay a solicitor anyway.

Gruntsandgroans · 16/10/2023 23:00

Rosscameasdoody · 16/10/2023 22:56

She’s paying the mortgage !!

My question here is was she just paying the mortgage or was she paying mortgage on her half then paying the mortgage on the sisters half in lieu of paying the sister rent if you know what I mean? So she was indeed paying the whole mortgage but she also occupied the whole house while the sister occupied none of it. So it all balances out and she owes the sister half of the profit.

nc14 · 16/10/2023 23:02

Thisismeyeah · 16/10/2023 22:48

I dont understand why you cant jointly see a solicitor and have them tell you where you both stand. If then she decides to dispute it she can take the legal action. Why do you have to be the one to do it?

Nobody cares about her boob job or your career. Just the facts are required what was signed what was paid etc etc. To an experienced solicitor it should be very clear of the legal entitlement which is the bottom line. Moral obligations are irrelevant.

I don’t think a solicitor would agree to advise them jointly as a solicitor wouldn’t be able to act in their individual best interests (as they’re not the same) which is in breach of SRA rules.

NancyMaloni · 16/10/2023 23:03

Don’t go to court, it will cost you a fortune and the stress will take a few years off your life.
it’s not fair at all, but get what you can and move on with your life.

Good luck!

FrodoBagginsToeHair · 16/10/2023 23:06

This is copied word for word from a post on Reddit where the op also hasnt answered any of the questions asked or engaged with the responses

RenovationNightmare · 16/10/2023 23:07

You haven't been in negative equity for the entirety of 16 years, you've chosen to bury your head in the sand, you've chosen to not sort it out. Yes, you've had bad luck with tenants but getting a mortgage with her was a bad idea, and when she moved out you could have let her room - you didn't, you struggled to pay the mortgage while having the benefit of living in a house by yourself. I understand that you are upset but you knew that on paper she owned half the house, that is not a surprise.

Itsbritneybitch22 · 16/10/2023 23:17

Wow your parents caused this problem but now doesn’t want to get involved?
What is your mum’s deal about she’s a single mum of 2 give her half? What the hell!

I don’t know the legalities of it all so wouldn’t advise with it but speak to a good solicitor and distance yourself from your mum, she’s unbelievable.

ScribblingPixie · 16/10/2023 23:26

I mean, you're just venting on here really, aren't you? You need to check your paperwork, see a solicitor and do it by the book. Your sister is entitled to whatever she's entitled to by law. The rest is irrelevant.

newamsterdam · 16/10/2023 23:40

Applesaarenttheonlyfruit · 16/10/2023 22:58

Yes, instead of rent to her sister.

It may all seem outrageous, but this in on the OP, she knew it wasn’t ‘her’ house.

You're confused. Why would you imagine she would pay the entire mortgage AND rent to her sister?

WrongSwanson · 16/10/2023 23:53

Whataretheodds · 16/10/2023 21:19

Agree you need to take legal advice. It's going to boil down to what's on the deeds - what % she owns.

I believe technically the fact you've lived in it alone is neither here nor there - if she part-owned the property then she'd be entitled to rent from you for her portion, which arguably nets off against her portion of the mortgage.

This is my understanding. So you paying her share of the mortgage cancels out you not paying her rent for living in her share of the house

WrongSwanson · 16/10/2023 23:55

newamsterdam · 16/10/2023 23:40

You're confused. Why would you imagine she would pay the entire mortgage AND rent to her sister?

When I split with my abusive ex I was told the same advice by my barrister. Me taking on the whole mortgage just cancelled out me paying him rent for his share of the house

KissyMissy · 17/10/2023 00:11

maddening · 16/10/2023 22:47

Work out what you have each paid in Inc deposit and payments into mortgage (not utilities) and upkeep etc and go from there imo

Yes, this would be a good starting point

YireosDodeAver · 17/10/2023 00:13

Do the maths of all the money you have poured into this property - every repair bill and the amount it cist to get rid of the awful tenants, everything you paid out in mortgage payments when you weren't living there and were receiving no rent (but not the amount you paid as the actual mortgage due when you lived there, though you could include her 1/3rd share of unpaid costs) everything you can think of though.

Then message back along the lines of "taking into account everything this money pit of a property has cost me over the years, there's no profit, only a £2000 loss" (replace £2000 with your calculated figure). You never helped with the costs when I was forking out for legal fees or having to keep covering the mortgage after the rental income dried up, which is what you would have done if you were acting as if you had any kind of share in the property, but if you want to take that responsibility now then you owe me about £600 - your share of the negative profits."

user1492757084 · 17/10/2023 04:23

You need legal advice and a very good accountant.
You will need to supply the accountant and lawyer with every piece of information and see what the outcome is.

Possibly the split will not be 50/50. I see how your sister could be owed something as the house was half hers - though you rented her half from her for the price of paying her mortgage, effectively.
You will have to tally the numbers and use a good accountant who knows the correct guidelines.
I would advise you to take your sister with you in the investigation so that she understands all the figures and history and can ask qustions of the accountant and lawyer too.

I would prefer to pay my sister what she is owed, and agrees to, rather than pay for a court case or indeed both.

royalwatchewr · 17/10/2023 06:18

FrodoBagginsToeHair · 16/10/2023 23:06

This is copied word for word from a post on Reddit where the op also hasnt answered any of the questions asked or engaged with the responses

Thanks, I won't bother replying then

Basilton · 17/10/2023 06:19

Thearmchairbunch · 16/10/2023 22:08

Work out what her share of the profits is and deduct her share of the mortgage and bill’s paying for the upkeep of the property

And in that case you would also need to add back the rent that Claudia was due on account of OP living in her share of the house for 16 years.

As Claudia’s name is on the deeds then Claudia is entitled to whatever % share of profit is reflected on the deeds (the deeds OP, not the mortgage, she is entitled because they are on the deeds).

This should have been sorted out a long time ago.

SD1978 · 17/10/2023 06:23

Did you not get any answers from your reddit thread OP? Will you be answering people's questions? If you are tenants in common, then there may be an amount sue is entitled to- you really need to talk to a lawyer.

jay55 · 17/10/2023 06:26

scoobydoo1971 · 16/10/2023 22:19

Request six years of bank statements. Identify the payments you have made towards the running of the house in that time, as an example of the average annual housing costs. Then claim a % back from your sisters claim. Bet it turns out with her owing you money.

But the op never paid her sister rent for the 1/3 share, whilst having sole use of the house. Sister can argue that would cover her share of the mortgage.

AgentJohnson · 17/10/2023 06:35

You didn’t sort your shit with an unreliable co owner. She’s being CF and you have been incredibly naïeve bordering stupid. The law will dictate what happens next, I’m not sure about the point of this post. This will be an expensive lesson but hopefully it will teach you a valuable lesson, take your financial shit seriously.

TammyJones · 17/10/2023 06:45

NancyMaloni · 16/10/2023 23:03

Don’t go to court, it will cost you a fortune and the stress will take a few years off your life.
it’s not fair at all, but get what you can and move on with your life.

Good luck!

THIS

HairyMaclairey · 17/10/2023 06:49

Don’t go to court, it will cost you a fortune and the stress will take a few years off your life.
it’s not fair at all, but get what you can and move on with your life.

Then tell your nasty, selfish, leech of a sister to do one and never contact you again.

travellinglighter · 17/10/2023 06:50

Applesaarenttheonlyfruit · 16/10/2023 22:54

It’s absolutely correct. The OP has occupied her sisters share of the house rent free.

Except it wasn’t free. She paid her sisters share of the mortgage, paid her sisters share of the upkeep and covered her sister’s liabilities when the tenant trashed the house.

I’m no legal expert but all these people saying pay her because she’s entitled aren’t experts either and they are forgetting that the sister broke a legal agreement at great cost to the op and therefore owes her a great deal of money.

A solicitor will sort it out.

Beautiful3 · 17/10/2023 06:58

You cannot sell without a solicitor. So choose a reccomended one and go talk to them. Explain the situation and they'll.tell you where you stand legally. You should have taken her name off like she asked.

3luckystars · 17/10/2023 07:02

I hope the law is on your side with this one. Please let us know how you get on with the solicitor.