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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Sister demands half the profit from the sale of the house after not paying for 16 years.

212 replies

TheBorgPrincess · 16/10/2023 20:50

Usual disclaimer- all names have been changed for privacy.

I (41F) bought a house with my younger sister Claudia (34F) 17 years ago (2006). Both our names went on the Mortgage at my parent’s behest. To make Claudia ‘Feel grown up’ and perhaps she would be inclined ‘to take the bills seriously’. As was earning more money than her at the time, we agreed that I would pay two thirds of all bills and Claudia would pay the remainder. (Somewhere in all the paperwork, I do remember ticking a box that said Tenants in common and not tenants in Law. Which I believe recognises an uneven split in ownership?)
Anyway, after 9 months of living together and after a silly argument about the washing up. Claudia packed up her things and left to go back home and live with our parents. I really don’t think she could afford her share of the bills and didn’t like spending her money on living essentials. Claudia promptly handed her key over to our dad and nothing was discussed or agreed. Our relationship was slightly fractured after this, but we remained cordial at family gatherings.
I really struggled to afford the bills on my own at first, but by taking a second job and knuckling down at work I earned a promotion and was soon comfortably able to afford everything with a decent quality of life.
Skip to 10 years later and Claudia is in a relationship with Matt. Matt ‘Flips houses’ for profit. Selling some and renting out others. He’s made a successful business out of this. Out of the blue I receive a scathing text message from Claudia demanding I remortgage immediately to take her name off the mortgage. From what I understand Matt had maxed out the amount of properties he could get with just his name and wanted to start using Claudia’s. She states that she doesn’t want to be bought out, just her name taking off the mortgage. She’ll even help pay for the legal fees. I get to own 100% of the house, she gets to build a property empire with Matt. Win-Win! Off I trot to a Mortgage advisor and explain the situation and there’s a few options- I just need to get the house valued. I pay my fee. Alas, the house is in negative equity! The mortgage advisor completely vanishes in the ether, doesn’t return my calls. I get a nasty text message from Claudia (GOD! I wish I’d kept these!) that she’s going to get a solicitor involved and force me to sell the house at a loss. I was absolutely heartbroken at the thought of being forced to give up my cute little house and my home of over a decade. I really didn’t what to do. My Parents aren't much help- they just shrug their shoulders. A few months later Claudia and Matt split up- all goes quiet, and I breathe a sigh of relief.
Fast forward another 5 years. I get offered a fantastic job opportunity BUT it involves a relocation ASAP! The company I work for offers to pay for a full relocation package- the whole she-bang plus they’ll pay for rent on a house for 6 months close to where I need to be so I have chance to sell my house.
No takers. The Estate agent recommend renting it out. It’s in a great location if you commute and it’s close to a lot of amenities, the area has had a bit of gentrification. It’s barely on the rental market for 24hrs before It’s snapped up. I rent it out for just enough to cover the mortgage and the landlord insurance, hoping it’s an investment for further down the line.
So, to be clear I try to sell the house – Claudia is aware but is not interested. I rent the house out- Claudia is aware but not interested and makes no comment on the situation.
4 years ago, the tenants stop paying rent (Just scumbags, but that’s a whole other story). After a lengthy year long battle which nearly broke me mentally and financially-They tried every trick in the book. I secure a successful eviction order and after the bailiffs have kicked them out, I am left with a completely trashed house. It was disgusting. Claudia is aware of this and makes no comment. My parents after seeing me struggle financially help me with the costs of a quick whitewash, several tip runs and a professional deep clean so I can get it back on the market to sell.

For the past year I had to pay both the mortgage and my own household bills. There’s just my wage, as a single person in a Cost-of-Living Crisis. I’ve blown all my savings, maxed out my credit card and had to take a loan out to make ends meet. I was hoping that the proceeds of the sale would allow me to pay everything off, get me a new car and a modest deposit on another house.

In what feels like the only good news of 2023. I have a buyer for the house. I didn’t quite get what I wanted, but I can’t afford to go on like this any longer. I want rid and quick.

Claudia is now asking about how much her share of the profit is, and how much is left on the mortgage. To be quite clear she hasn’t paid a penny towards the upkeep or mortgage of that house for over 16 YEARS! I am shocked but not surprised by the sheer audacity. Somebody has whispered in her ear that as her name is still on the mortgage she’s entitled to HALF of the profits from the sale! I have also found out that she’s taken out a large loan (for a boob job) stating that she is a property owner. My parents don’t want to get involved. They don’t want to come between sisters! My Mother hints that I should take pity on her as she’s now a single mother of two, while my dad thinks I should get legal advice and try to fight her in court.

Is there anything I can do? Or is it more fool me for not remortgaging sooner? She’s set foot in the house twice in the 16 years since she left, and apart from when she was in a relationship with Matt hasn’t said anything and was quite happy to let me keep her credit score nice and high as I’ve never missed a payment. I’m worried that if she doesn’t get her own way she’ll refuse to sign for the sale of the house.

OP posts:
ColleenDonaghy · 17/10/2023 07:02

Definitely one for a solicitor.

Did your parents give you the deposit? If so then morally I'd say she's due that back at least - so if they gave you a 10pc deposit then she's due at least 5pc of the sale price.

Applesaarenttheonlyfruit · 17/10/2023 07:04

newamsterdam · 16/10/2023 23:40

You're confused. Why would you imagine she would pay the entire mortgage AND rent to her sister?

You can’t read. I’m quite clean, paying the mortgage in lieu of rent.

From a post above this appears to be a fake post, so we are playing moral maize, not reality. Waste of time for all.

bakedbrain · 17/10/2023 07:07

@Applesaarenttheonlyfruit that's an astute point (genuinely) but it doesn't work like that – case law is very clear that tenant non-occupancy is a choice and tenants in common generally can't require each other to pay rent

FormerlyPathologicallyHappy · 17/10/2023 07:09

Well this was designed to go tits from the start.

There was a case in the uk where a couple bought a house, the man fucked off and years later when the woman sold he wanted cash and the courts ruled against him so there is a precedent in uk law.

Your parents are batshit. I would not be helping them out when they’re old and need ferrying to hospital appointments & care. They’ve royally fucked you over here, I think we can all tell your sisters the favourite.

bonzaitree · 17/10/2023 07:21

Take the paperwork to a solicitor and get proper legal advice.

bakedbrain · 17/10/2023 07:23

@FormerlyPathologicallyHappy stack v dowden? A bit different – concerns joint tenants

willWillSmithsmith · 17/10/2023 07:31

I’m a tenant in common with my ex. We have a 50/50 split on the deeds. He’s never lived in the house but that doesn’t affect the outcome. As far as I know the percentage split is set in stone and can’t be changed unless both sign that amendment. You definitely need proper legal advice.

Also, to add, when the property is sold the proceeds will automatically be divided between each tenant in common so it’s not as if OP gets all the money then divides it as she sees fit.

Imagwine · 17/10/2023 07:40

It does sound a mess. Let a solicitor untangle it.

FormerlyPathologicallyHappy · 17/10/2023 07:44

@bakedbrain Possibly, I only remember it because dh’s ex tried similar a year or two before and failed as dh had paid the mortgage every month & we had cheques to prove it.

20k in legal fees and it dragged on for two years after the house originally sold.

Needapadlockonmyfridge · 17/10/2023 07:49

See a Solicitor. Get solid legal advice.

JudgeJ · 17/10/2023 08:01

Applesaarenttheonlyfruit · 16/10/2023 22:13

So she jointly owns the house? Have you paid rent to her in that time?…

In paying the sister's share of the mortgage then the OP has certainly been paying rent in a way!

TodayInahurry · 17/10/2023 08:08

Sadly, as I know from bitter and expensive experience, it is foolish to involve family members with property. You may be ‘feeling sorry for them, helping them out’ etc. it ends in tears

Erdinger · 17/10/2023 08:09

So your parents and you thought it was a good idea to buy a house with a 17 year old ?

Collaborate · 17/10/2023 08:14

You need to draw up a year by year financial account of ownership of the property. Look at capital paid off the mortgage - rental income as against expenditure - capital expenditure - and offset her share of the loss against her share of the proceeds of sale. From the sound of things there’s going to be a lot to take off.

Pinkl · 17/10/2023 08:16

Your parents asked you to put her on the mortgage and now when it’s all blown up they don’t want to get involved!

Morally she doesn’t deserve anything in my book!

prh47bridge · 17/10/2023 08:22

Taking the emotion out of this and sticking to the law...

If you were joint tenants, you would own the house equally. She would be entitled to 50% of the proceeds of any sale.

If you are correct that you are tenants in common, that opens up the possibility that the house could be owned in unequal shares. However, for that to happen, there needs to be evidence that you and your sister have agreed in the past that the split would not be 50/50. This usually takes the form of a Declaration of Trust setting out how much each of you own. Absent any such document or other evidence of an agreement, your sister is still entitled to 50% of the proceeds of any sale.

PabloandGustheGreySquirrels · 17/10/2023 08:33

Sadly she's still entitled to half unless you pay £40k court fees to let a judge decide

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 17/10/2023 08:38

See a solicitor but gather proof of every payment you have made

Holesinmysox · 17/10/2023 08:43

In law she is owed half of it. While you have been paying 100% of the mortgage, 50% of that is seen as a payment in lieu of rent to her for your exclusive use of the property. Been there, done that!

Holesinmysox · 17/10/2023 08:44

Gruntsandgroans · 16/10/2023 23:00

My question here is was she just paying the mortgage or was she paying mortgage on her half then paying the mortgage on the sisters half in lieu of paying the sister rent if you know what I mean? So she was indeed paying the whole mortgage but she also occupied the whole house while the sister occupied none of it. So it all balances out and she owes the sister half of the profit.

Edited

This is exactly how it’s seen legally.

howdoesyourgardengrowinmay · 17/10/2023 08:58

Disclaimer - I have no legal background.

However, I would do this before going to lawyers.

how much £ was the house worth when Claudia stopped paying her share of the mortgage (16+ years ago)?
what was Claudia's percentage ownership at that time / when you bought the property?
Offer her the percentage she owned of the house value 16+ years ago and no more.

if that doesn't work you will have to get a lawyer involved.

shame on your parents for being unsupportive when you need them.

BobblePin · 17/10/2023 09:14

Quitelikeit · 16/10/2023 21:46

No way would any judge allow her to have this property

Tell her if she wants a shard then she needs to back pay you half of the costs you incurred during the 16 years

They don't live in the Shard, she lives in a house.

MargotBamborough · 17/10/2023 09:14

You need a solicitor, OP.

This word gets thrown around a lot on Mumsnet, but your parents sound abusive.

17 years ago they coerced you into letting your sister buy a house with you and now they don't want to be involved? Dickheads.

Unfortunately her name is on the deeds so you can't just sell it without her and keep the proceeds, but a solicitor might be able to find a way of ensuring that her share takes into account the fact that she never paid her share of the mortgage repayments.

How much equity is there?

lljkk · 17/10/2023 09:18

9/10 for a fun story, OP.

Josell12345 · 17/10/2023 09:21

Theres probably something to be done about her not paying her share of the mortgage. Because if she lived there and contributed but didnt have her name on it she would have a claim the opposite way round. Having lived with someone for 7 months and who then took me to court for his share of the property despite not having his name on anything incl.my mortgage and got it, I know this is true.