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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Sister demands half the profit from the sale of the house after not paying for 16 years.

212 replies

TheBorgPrincess · 16/10/2023 20:50

Usual disclaimer- all names have been changed for privacy.

I (41F) bought a house with my younger sister Claudia (34F) 17 years ago (2006). Both our names went on the Mortgage at my parent’s behest. To make Claudia ‘Feel grown up’ and perhaps she would be inclined ‘to take the bills seriously’. As was earning more money than her at the time, we agreed that I would pay two thirds of all bills and Claudia would pay the remainder. (Somewhere in all the paperwork, I do remember ticking a box that said Tenants in common and not tenants in Law. Which I believe recognises an uneven split in ownership?)
Anyway, after 9 months of living together and after a silly argument about the washing up. Claudia packed up her things and left to go back home and live with our parents. I really don’t think she could afford her share of the bills and didn’t like spending her money on living essentials. Claudia promptly handed her key over to our dad and nothing was discussed or agreed. Our relationship was slightly fractured after this, but we remained cordial at family gatherings.
I really struggled to afford the bills on my own at first, but by taking a second job and knuckling down at work I earned a promotion and was soon comfortably able to afford everything with a decent quality of life.
Skip to 10 years later and Claudia is in a relationship with Matt. Matt ‘Flips houses’ for profit. Selling some and renting out others. He’s made a successful business out of this. Out of the blue I receive a scathing text message from Claudia demanding I remortgage immediately to take her name off the mortgage. From what I understand Matt had maxed out the amount of properties he could get with just his name and wanted to start using Claudia’s. She states that she doesn’t want to be bought out, just her name taking off the mortgage. She’ll even help pay for the legal fees. I get to own 100% of the house, she gets to build a property empire with Matt. Win-Win! Off I trot to a Mortgage advisor and explain the situation and there’s a few options- I just need to get the house valued. I pay my fee. Alas, the house is in negative equity! The mortgage advisor completely vanishes in the ether, doesn’t return my calls. I get a nasty text message from Claudia (GOD! I wish I’d kept these!) that she’s going to get a solicitor involved and force me to sell the house at a loss. I was absolutely heartbroken at the thought of being forced to give up my cute little house and my home of over a decade. I really didn’t what to do. My Parents aren't much help- they just shrug their shoulders. A few months later Claudia and Matt split up- all goes quiet, and I breathe a sigh of relief.
Fast forward another 5 years. I get offered a fantastic job opportunity BUT it involves a relocation ASAP! The company I work for offers to pay for a full relocation package- the whole she-bang plus they’ll pay for rent on a house for 6 months close to where I need to be so I have chance to sell my house.
No takers. The Estate agent recommend renting it out. It’s in a great location if you commute and it’s close to a lot of amenities, the area has had a bit of gentrification. It’s barely on the rental market for 24hrs before It’s snapped up. I rent it out for just enough to cover the mortgage and the landlord insurance, hoping it’s an investment for further down the line.
So, to be clear I try to sell the house – Claudia is aware but is not interested. I rent the house out- Claudia is aware but not interested and makes no comment on the situation.
4 years ago, the tenants stop paying rent (Just scumbags, but that’s a whole other story). After a lengthy year long battle which nearly broke me mentally and financially-They tried every trick in the book. I secure a successful eviction order and after the bailiffs have kicked them out, I am left with a completely trashed house. It was disgusting. Claudia is aware of this and makes no comment. My parents after seeing me struggle financially help me with the costs of a quick whitewash, several tip runs and a professional deep clean so I can get it back on the market to sell.

For the past year I had to pay both the mortgage and my own household bills. There’s just my wage, as a single person in a Cost-of-Living Crisis. I’ve blown all my savings, maxed out my credit card and had to take a loan out to make ends meet. I was hoping that the proceeds of the sale would allow me to pay everything off, get me a new car and a modest deposit on another house.

In what feels like the only good news of 2023. I have a buyer for the house. I didn’t quite get what I wanted, but I can’t afford to go on like this any longer. I want rid and quick.

Claudia is now asking about how much her share of the profit is, and how much is left on the mortgage. To be quite clear she hasn’t paid a penny towards the upkeep or mortgage of that house for over 16 YEARS! I am shocked but not surprised by the sheer audacity. Somebody has whispered in her ear that as her name is still on the mortgage she’s entitled to HALF of the profits from the sale! I have also found out that she’s taken out a large loan (for a boob job) stating that she is a property owner. My parents don’t want to get involved. They don’t want to come between sisters! My Mother hints that I should take pity on her as she’s now a single mother of two, while my dad thinks I should get legal advice and try to fight her in court.

Is there anything I can do? Or is it more fool me for not remortgaging sooner? She’s set foot in the house twice in the 16 years since she left, and apart from when she was in a relationship with Matt hasn’t said anything and was quite happy to let me keep her credit score nice and high as I’ve never missed a payment. I’m worried that if she doesn’t get her own way she’ll refuse to sign for the sale of the house.

OP posts:
Gruntsandgroans · 17/10/2023 11:03

SirVixofVixHall · 17/10/2023 10:45

I see people putting “34F” on posts and think it is their bra size, why is this creeping into posts ?
But anyway OP, legal advice now.

It's a Reddit thing - My(32F) boyfriend(34M) doesn't get along with my parents(67F and 69M) or my sister(29F). What can I do?

It's really tedious and I don't know why they think the ages of every player matter.

AlexandriasWindmill · 17/10/2023 11:55

I assume it's because they're Reddit posters who have ventured over to MN for the lols/advice [delete as applicable]

3luckystars · 17/10/2023 12:15

I think the names are way more important, they can really change the tone of the whole post, especially if they pick really exotic names.

WorldCuppa · 17/10/2023 12:20

You bought a house in 2006 and it’s worth less now? That simply can’t be true

BattleofBeamfleot · 17/10/2023 12:30

I thought this looked familiar - I saw it on Reddit earlier. Hence the bra sizing I guess! But that's mostly only a stated requirement for the relationships subreddits; LegalAdviceUK does not require participants' ages.

I mean it matters more when it's "my (21F) boyfriend (40M) of three years says.." 🚩 where it just looks silly if it's "I (26M) have just handed in my notice to my boss (50sM)"

OP, you're not going to get any better free legal advice at this point. (You've also posted this in AIBU and not in Legal, where your answers might be more specific and helpful, but that's still unlikely here because it's a complex issue.)

What you do know is:

  • legal advice from a qualified solicitor is essential
  • the starting point is likely to be 50:50
  • you may be able to negotiate from there based on contributions and costs
  • an experienced solicitor can give far more detailed and specific guidance than randomers on the internet

This is not straightforward and you will need a lawyer of at least senior associate level, if not a partner. Preferably you'd seek a mid sized firm so that they have a decent in-house litigation team if it comes to that. Best of luck!

Yalta · 17/10/2023 12:38

*WorldCuppa · Today 11:20

You bought a house in 2006 and it’s worth less now? That simply can’t be true*

Because it isn’t. It was worth less a few years ago. Since then the place has gone up in value hence why the sister is looking for a pay out.

EarringsandLipstick · 18/10/2023 18:05

CakeWarrior · 16/10/2023 21:21

I had this scenario with my ex husband. He left and I was unable to buy him out of afford to move. However after a few years when I was able to move and he had to sign the paperwork for the house sale - lo and behold he wanted half the profits! Despite not paying for almost 10 years. My solicitor told him he has 2 choices; that if he can prove his mortgage payments up until sale then he is entitled, or he can admit liability and repay me the half of what he owes to then get just a couple of grand which is all that would be left after sale and fees. Needless to say he squirmed away and just signed the papers. No payment = No entitlement.

This sounds very odd.

Was there very little equity in the house (unlikely, as you mention profits)?

I am in a very similar situation - my ex left & didn't contribute to the mortgage or any associated costs for a decade. I just yesterday concluded an agreement whereby I paid a very significant lump sum to my ex for his interest in the house (we'd owned it jointly for a decade before he left).

It felt deeply unfair but it was clear I had limited options. If I didn't pay this now, the judge would award a deferred sale, meaning a) my abusive ex would be able to force me to sell the moment my youngest child left education and b) he'd get a much bigger share of the profits, and still wouldn't have to pay towards the mortgage.

I'm perplexed how your solicitor was able to ensure you got all the payment with nothing to your ex?

EarringsandLipstick · 18/10/2023 18:06

CakeWarrior · 16/10/2023 21:21

I had this scenario with my ex husband. He left and I was unable to buy him out of afford to move. However after a few years when I was able to move and he had to sign the paperwork for the house sale - lo and behold he wanted half the profits! Despite not paying for almost 10 years. My solicitor told him he has 2 choices; that if he can prove his mortgage payments up until sale then he is entitled, or he can admit liability and repay me the half of what he owes to then get just a couple of grand which is all that would be left after sale and fees. Needless to say he squirmed away and just signed the papers. No payment = No entitlement.

Sadly no payment - no entitlement isn't correct - I mean I'm in Ireland but I can't imagine it's that different.

redribbonrose · 18/10/2023 18:18

I would write and try to list all the expenses incurred over the years

the tot up the amount of mortgage you have paid

if she’s entitled to half the profits, then she can cough up her share of the costs too

towriteyoumustlive · 18/10/2023 18:28

Yes she is entitled to half.

But don't forget to deduct her half of the mortgage payments and half of any maintenance from her share.

(Except when it was rented out as the rent covered the mortgage although any fees should be halved)

justwatchingtelly · 18/10/2023 18:30

stillplentyofjunkinthetrunk · 17/10/2023 09:49

lawyer up, offer what is in your opinion a fair assessment of the legal minimum she's entitled to to keep it out of court. But also discuss with the lawyer a counter suit / possible adjustments

e.g. say 'profit' on the sale of the house = sale price now - original price

and the lawyer says she's entitled to a third of this profit, could you take that third and subtract 1/3rd of the mortgage payments and the property maintenance she didn't pay for what sounds like well over a decade.

Set it all out in excruciating detail. See if you actually 'owe' her anything.

If it comes out as a very low value or negative value still give her a copy of it but offer her 1/2 the deposit your parents paid originally plus interest as a good faith out of court settlement.

This

nomadmummy · 18/10/2023 18:41

Send her a well written demand letter for everything she has refused to pay with interest. Threaten to take her to court if she does not settle.

Avidreader99 · 18/10/2023 19:04

My partner was in a very similar position with his brother. Went court and brother was awarded his share of the sale minus the mortgage payments, cost of repairs/work to the house which he had to pay to my partner. Get good legal advice.

Mumof3confused · 18/10/2023 21:13

Get legal advice. If she’s entitled to her share then surely you’re entitled to take off your share of the costs she hasn’t contributed to, before paying her share.

Ilovecleaning · 19/10/2023 06:33

I sympathise very much but why was your first port of call Mumsnet and not a solicitor?

EarringsandLipstick · 19/10/2023 07:27

Ilovecleaning · 19/10/2023 06:33

I sympathise very much but why was your first port of call Mumsnet and not a solicitor?

Well, why is anyone's first port of call MN? 🤷🏻‍♀️

For almost any situation here there's an 'expert' out there from home to relationship, medical to legal matters - but posters still post here for advice as it's accessible, easy & a first port of call.

DadBodAlready · 19/10/2023 08:47

Your dads right get legal advice, but under Tenants in Common you can own different %ages. Its not a straight 50:50 split. So if you can prove 0 contribution from your sister in 16 years then you should have an argument for a greater share

Lattims83 · 19/10/2023 09:52

I'm not sure how issues like this work legally in the UK but your sister sounds like a bitch. I would fight her and try to make sure I can get as close to paying her nothing as I can.

EarringsandLipstick · 19/10/2023 09:54

Lattims83 · 19/10/2023 09:52

I'm not sure how issues like this work legally in the UK but your sister sounds like a bitch. I would fight her and try to make sure I can get as close to paying her nothing as I can.

How helpful. 🙄

Ilovecleaning · 19/10/2023 10:05

EarringsandLipstick · 19/10/2023 07:27

Well, why is anyone's first port of call MN? 🤷🏻‍♀️

For almost any situation here there's an 'expert' out there from home to relationship, medical to legal matters - but posters still post here for advice as it's accessible, easy & a first port of call.

Yes, you do have a point. I just hope the OP gets the professional advice she needs.

Lattims83 · 19/10/2023 10:41

EarringsandLipstick · 19/10/2023 09:54

How helpful. 🙄

This is a message board right and not a legal forum? Or am I mistaken?

pollymere · 19/10/2023 11:43

I would treat it like a divorce. You need to detail everything you've paid into the house, including receipts if possible. Document as much as possible. If you've evidence of what your sister paid in, great. I would suspect she is entitled to what she paid in PLUS 50% on top of whatever profit has been made on the house. However, if you have spent money on improvements and cleaning etc that should be offset against that profit as added value. What was it worth after being trashed for example? Any valuation after this would be yours for fixing the problem.

Your Dad is right that you need to get a solicitor pronto. A few letters will probably be sufficient rather than it needing to go to court.

Quitelikeit · 19/10/2023 14:17

@TarantinoIsAMisogynist

why because I said a judge wouldn’t award her half?

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 19/10/2023 15:00

No, because you said "Tell her if she wants a shard then she needs to back pay you half of the costs you incurred during the 16 years"

The (fictional) OP has no legal right to place conditions on her (fictional) sister before deciding how much her sister would receive. And it wouldn't be the OP divvying up the proceeds regardless - it would be the conveyancer, who would do it in accordance with legal ownership in the absence of any ruling to the contrary.

Quitelikeit · 19/10/2023 15:24

I said she could try telling her sister if she wants half the profit would she mind paying back half of the costs?!

I didn’t say she legally had to!

Honestly you are actually making stuff up - are you ok?