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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Sister demands half the profit from the sale of the house after not paying for 16 years.

212 replies

TheBorgPrincess · 16/10/2023 20:50

Usual disclaimer- all names have been changed for privacy.

I (41F) bought a house with my younger sister Claudia (34F) 17 years ago (2006). Both our names went on the Mortgage at my parent’s behest. To make Claudia ‘Feel grown up’ and perhaps she would be inclined ‘to take the bills seriously’. As was earning more money than her at the time, we agreed that I would pay two thirds of all bills and Claudia would pay the remainder. (Somewhere in all the paperwork, I do remember ticking a box that said Tenants in common and not tenants in Law. Which I believe recognises an uneven split in ownership?)
Anyway, after 9 months of living together and after a silly argument about the washing up. Claudia packed up her things and left to go back home and live with our parents. I really don’t think she could afford her share of the bills and didn’t like spending her money on living essentials. Claudia promptly handed her key over to our dad and nothing was discussed or agreed. Our relationship was slightly fractured after this, but we remained cordial at family gatherings.
I really struggled to afford the bills on my own at first, but by taking a second job and knuckling down at work I earned a promotion and was soon comfortably able to afford everything with a decent quality of life.
Skip to 10 years later and Claudia is in a relationship with Matt. Matt ‘Flips houses’ for profit. Selling some and renting out others. He’s made a successful business out of this. Out of the blue I receive a scathing text message from Claudia demanding I remortgage immediately to take her name off the mortgage. From what I understand Matt had maxed out the amount of properties he could get with just his name and wanted to start using Claudia’s. She states that she doesn’t want to be bought out, just her name taking off the mortgage. She’ll even help pay for the legal fees. I get to own 100% of the house, she gets to build a property empire with Matt. Win-Win! Off I trot to a Mortgage advisor and explain the situation and there’s a few options- I just need to get the house valued. I pay my fee. Alas, the house is in negative equity! The mortgage advisor completely vanishes in the ether, doesn’t return my calls. I get a nasty text message from Claudia (GOD! I wish I’d kept these!) that she’s going to get a solicitor involved and force me to sell the house at a loss. I was absolutely heartbroken at the thought of being forced to give up my cute little house and my home of over a decade. I really didn’t what to do. My Parents aren't much help- they just shrug their shoulders. A few months later Claudia and Matt split up- all goes quiet, and I breathe a sigh of relief.
Fast forward another 5 years. I get offered a fantastic job opportunity BUT it involves a relocation ASAP! The company I work for offers to pay for a full relocation package- the whole she-bang plus they’ll pay for rent on a house for 6 months close to where I need to be so I have chance to sell my house.
No takers. The Estate agent recommend renting it out. It’s in a great location if you commute and it’s close to a lot of amenities, the area has had a bit of gentrification. It’s barely on the rental market for 24hrs before It’s snapped up. I rent it out for just enough to cover the mortgage and the landlord insurance, hoping it’s an investment for further down the line.
So, to be clear I try to sell the house – Claudia is aware but is not interested. I rent the house out- Claudia is aware but not interested and makes no comment on the situation.
4 years ago, the tenants stop paying rent (Just scumbags, but that’s a whole other story). After a lengthy year long battle which nearly broke me mentally and financially-They tried every trick in the book. I secure a successful eviction order and after the bailiffs have kicked them out, I am left with a completely trashed house. It was disgusting. Claudia is aware of this and makes no comment. My parents after seeing me struggle financially help me with the costs of a quick whitewash, several tip runs and a professional deep clean so I can get it back on the market to sell.

For the past year I had to pay both the mortgage and my own household bills. There’s just my wage, as a single person in a Cost-of-Living Crisis. I’ve blown all my savings, maxed out my credit card and had to take a loan out to make ends meet. I was hoping that the proceeds of the sale would allow me to pay everything off, get me a new car and a modest deposit on another house.

In what feels like the only good news of 2023. I have a buyer for the house. I didn’t quite get what I wanted, but I can’t afford to go on like this any longer. I want rid and quick.

Claudia is now asking about how much her share of the profit is, and how much is left on the mortgage. To be quite clear she hasn’t paid a penny towards the upkeep or mortgage of that house for over 16 YEARS! I am shocked but not surprised by the sheer audacity. Somebody has whispered in her ear that as her name is still on the mortgage she’s entitled to HALF of the profits from the sale! I have also found out that she’s taken out a large loan (for a boob job) stating that she is a property owner. My parents don’t want to get involved. They don’t want to come between sisters! My Mother hints that I should take pity on her as she’s now a single mother of two, while my dad thinks I should get legal advice and try to fight her in court.

Is there anything I can do? Or is it more fool me for not remortgaging sooner? She’s set foot in the house twice in the 16 years since she left, and apart from when she was in a relationship with Matt hasn’t said anything and was quite happy to let me keep her credit score nice and high as I’ve never missed a payment. I’m worried that if she doesn’t get her own way she’ll refuse to sign for the sale of the house.

OP posts:
TheBorgPrincess · 16/10/2023 21:30

I may have got some dates wrong. My sister 19 at the time we bought the house.
Both our names are on the deeds.

OP posts:
LimePi · 16/10/2023 21:33

If she’s entitled to 33% or whatever of proceeds wouldn’t she be liable for same % of the costs you had to incur?

gazpachosoupday · 16/10/2023 21:39

I have a vague recollection of a friend being in a similar position, from memory, her brother was entitled to 30% of the profits, but because she could prove that he hadnt paid anything towards the mortgage, he was only entitled to his deposit back.

Its something to look into with a solicitor

FloweryName · 16/10/2023 21:39

You have benefitted from having her name attached to the mortgage on the property so it’s not unreasonable that if there is profit, she gets some benefit in return.

NamelessNancy · 16/10/2023 21:39

I still think your sister was far too young for this responsibility. It doesn't mean that she should feel entitled to profit from your years mortgage payments of course though.

Ultimately by encouraging/facilitating this your parents did neither of you a favour.

pinksavannah · 16/10/2023 21:39

CakeWarrior · 16/10/2023 21:21

I had this scenario with my ex husband. He left and I was unable to buy him out of afford to move. However after a few years when I was able to move and he had to sign the paperwork for the house sale - lo and behold he wanted half the profits! Despite not paying for almost 10 years. My solicitor told him he has 2 choices; that if he can prove his mortgage payments up until sale then he is entitled, or he can admit liability and repay me the half of what he owes to then get just a couple of grand which is all that would be left after sale and fees. Needless to say he squirmed away and just signed the papers. No payment = No entitlement.

This sounds about right

She needs to prove she paid her % of the mortgage for the XXX amount of years

Or work out what her portion would have been and minus it from her % of profit

CatherinedeBourgh · 16/10/2023 21:42

She is owed a % of the profits. But the profits should take into account any costs that are incurred to get them. If you have been paying the mortgage on your own, I'd be surprised if you could not get the money you paid back deducted from the profit.

For example:

The house was bought for 110k with a 100k mortgage. The house is now 120k with a 50k mortgage. So there is 70k worth of equity in the house, but only a 10k profit. She would be entitled to a share of the 10k, not the same share of the 70k. You would get the 50k you have paid back, along with your share of the 10k profit.

JobMatch3000 · 16/10/2023 21:43

TheBorgPrincess · 16/10/2023 21:30

I may have got some dates wrong. My sister 19 at the time we bought the house.
Both our names are on the deeds.

So do the title deeds show the % share you both own?

Quitelikeit · 16/10/2023 21:46

No way would any judge allow her to have this property

Tell her if she wants a shard then she needs to back pay you half of the costs you incurred during the 16 years

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 16/10/2023 21:52

Quitelikeit · 16/10/2023 21:46

No way would any judge allow her to have this property

Tell her if she wants a shard then she needs to back pay you half of the costs you incurred during the 16 years

Well we can tell you're not a lawyer!

AbbeyGailsParty · 16/10/2023 22:01

Send her a bill for 1/3 mortgage payments for the past 16 years. When she pays that to you she can 1/3 of the house profit.

MargaretThursday · 16/10/2023 22:02

Totally irrelevant, but I was wondering why the sister's bra size (34F) was of any importance at all.
My dd has just explained to me, although I'm uncertain why her being F is any surprise as the Op describes her as "sister" and why age has any relevance either.

Dd is still laughing though.

Thearmchairbunch · 16/10/2023 22:08

Work out what her share of the profits is and deduct her share of the mortgage and bill’s paying for the upkeep of the property

Applesaarenttheonlyfruit · 16/10/2023 22:13

So she jointly owns the house? Have you paid rent to her in that time?…

Ophy83 · 16/10/2023 22:14

Are there in fact any profits? Once you take into account everything you've spent on the house/tenants/maintenance etc, not just mortgage? If not, just send her the bill for her half of that and she'll probably be happy to walk away

Butchyrestingface · 16/10/2023 22:14

You lost me at I took out a mortgage with a teenager to make her feel grown up.

MsRosley · 16/10/2023 22:15

Ugh, your sister. Her poor kids.

KeepTheTempo · 16/10/2023 22:19

You 100% need to speak to a lawyer. To make that time as efficient as possible, gather all the evidence you can in advance about funding (not nasty texts etc, they're not relevant in land law).

What you declared when purchasing about how you paid for the deposit between you

Evidence of mortgage payments and contributions since purchase - be fair here so if she paid into your account and you paid to the mortgage or vice versa, that's captured

Evidence of bills, including council tax, and of who has been living there since (less relevant but helpful)

scoobydoo1971 · 16/10/2023 22:19

Request six years of bank statements. Identify the payments you have made towards the running of the house in that time, as an example of the average annual housing costs. Then claim a % back from your sisters claim. Bet it turns out with her owing you money.

cestlavielife · 16/10/2023 22:20

Its what is on the deeds. What split is specified. You ve had the house to yourself effectively so owe her occupational rent.
So yeh she entitled to her share.

LizzieSiddal · 16/10/2023 22:20

You need to go and get legal advice asap. As she’s on the deeds she may well be entitled to a share however go and see a solicitor with a printout of all the costs you’ve made for the house, over the years.

ObsidianGrape · 16/10/2023 22:23

Work out how much she owes in half the mortgage for the 16 years of not paying, send a solicitor letter saying to get half the profit of the sale she has to pay that sum owed in unpaid mortgage payments. I bet it's more than the profit would be! Hopefully that would stop her thinking of after for any money

PinkiOcelot · 16/10/2023 22:24

ObsidianGrape · 16/10/2023 22:23

Work out how much she owes in half the mortgage for the 16 years of not paying, send a solicitor letter saying to get half the profit of the sale she has to pay that sum owed in unpaid mortgage payments. I bet it's more than the profit would be! Hopefully that would stop her thinking of after for any money

This!

Pipsquiggle · 16/10/2023 22:26

Of course you need legal advice not a load of hear say on an internet forum.

Get your ducks in a row to show how you have exclusively financed this property - money paid on the mortgage, eviction, deep cleaning etc. And also timings.

Unfortunately sometimes the law can be an ass, a lawyer will be able to tell you your chances. Good luck. It sounds like she doesn't deserve anything

Applesaarenttheonlyfruit · 16/10/2023 22:28

cestlavielife · 16/10/2023 22:20

Its what is on the deeds. What split is specified. You ve had the house to yourself effectively so owe her occupational rent.
So yeh she entitled to her share.

Exactly.